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To what extent are Islamic terrorists inspired by Muhammad and the Quran?

sooda

Veteran Member
That is nice.

It is definitely necessary for Muslims to be aware of non-Muslims and to have ample opportunity to learn better.

As for what I think that you want to imply, I don't think I want to lend you that much significance. Sorry.

Sadly so much extremism comes out of Arab lands that were European colonies.. Egypt in particular has had its share of firebrands who hated Westerners... and then that whole mess with Palestine added fuel to the fires of injustice.

I sort of get it.. You can't exploit people and treat them like wogs without consequences.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
On the subject of burnings... it was often Bible Translators who were burned by "the church' of the day giving them the punishment for a witch
and says more about the leadership of the church and not wanting the word of God in the language of the people

The New and Old testaments were originally in the language of the people.

OK.
Christian churches have delivered so much tragedy to countries and comunities over the last two millenia that they should at least recognise that terrorists and murderers are scattered through nearly all religions.
Islam has so many peaceful followers.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
So what religion is involved?
Christians have no choice but to picknchoose.
Christianity. You mean from the OT to the NT? Most Christians that I know only consider the NT, which in their opinion, negated the OT even though the OT is kept for historical reasons. What I’m talking about are the Christians who use the OT to condemn gays while munching down a pull-pork sandwich and complaining about their parents or their third wife.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Christianity. You mean from the OT to the NT? Most Christians that I know only consider the NT, which in their opinion, negated the OT even though the OT is kept for historical reasons. What I’m talking about are the Christians who use the OT to condemn gays while munching down a pull-pork sandwich and complaining about their parents or their third wife.


Well, picking the NT and ignoring the OT
sure is picknchoose.

And surely everyone chooses interpretations and
what to observe or ignore. Who gives away their
all and tries to emulate jesus?
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Well, picking the NT and ignoring the OT
sure is picknchoose.

And surely everyone chooses interpretations and
what to observe or ignore. Who gives away their
all and tries to emulate jesus?
Sure, have it your way: Christians = ISIS. Happy now?
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
OK.
Christian churches have delivered so much tragedy to countries and comunities over the last two millenia that they should at least recognise that terrorists and murderers are scattered through nearly all religions.
Islam has so many peaceful followers.


Terrorists are scattered throughout all of fallen mankind, given their tarnished natures in need of redemption.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Sure, have it your way: Christians = ISIS. Happy now?

I am satisfied that you've nothing further to offer
as examples of thems as dont picknchoose.

Its ok, we dont expect the impossible. A good
faith effort to be a good person is plenty.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
According to traditions Muhammad experienced His first Revelation from God through the angel Gabriel in the cave of Hira 610 AD. The Quran was revealed over the next two decades. Muhammad taught His people they should turn away from polytheism and be like the Christians and Jews and worship the One True God. This Divine Message was not well received by Muhammad’s people, particularly the Quraysh who arose to destroy Him and His followers. The Muslims fled to Medina, but they were pursued and so had to defend themselves in several battles. Muhammad and the Muslims were ultimately triumphant and went on to unite the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula.

Some of the Quran was composed during war time. Certain verses if taken out of context could be seen as condoning violence. Did the example of Muhammad’s willingness to take up arms when necessary (albeit for self defence) provide inspiration for future generations to take up arms during other times of need?

So with this thread I’d like to explore to what extent Muslim extremists are inspired by the Quran and Muhammad Himself? What about other influences such as the Hadiths, Sira and the early history of Islamic expansion? Are there parallels within Christianity’s expansion and history of violence? How do you see it and why?

I've never heard of them being inspired by any other thing but religion. If they were, they would be just terrorists, not Jihadists.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
empathise with criminals in order to reduce crime are a hindrance
A hindrance to what? You way you think anger could gain release? To help others works only in that way that you possible prevent them to act foolish: not virtuous, harmful. There is no way to prevent someone from effects of his previous deeds (most seen as victim). So only by sticking to virtue by oneself and teaching simply that, one is of helpful use for many. There is no way to keep fools from harming each other for and back. One gains what one sows. Therefore, it not really in a position that has ceratin control over others, one is smart to don't go between colors. Follish suicide acts go in between fools, or strategical means for "fool-catcher" for their own interests, gain and win, like behind all this similar topics.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
A hindrance to what? .

You cut one of my sentences in half, thus losing it's meaning entire, and then question me upon the 'bit' that you copied.

This is what you quoted from my whole sentence, thus losing the whole meaning:-
.....empathise with criminals in order to reduce crime are a hindrance

....so why don't you quote that whole sentence, because it referred to people whole criticise crime prevention specialists who try to empathise wkith criminals' minds in order to DETER crimes.

Such critics are a hindrance to crime prevention.

So..... at least other membrers will now be ablre to see how your edit of my sentence reversed the meaning.
 

Samana Johann

Restricted by request
So..... at least other membrers will now be ablre to see how your edit of my sentence reversed the meaning.
Even if the whole would have been quoted, the replay wouldn't change, so the question. No problem, the opposite, if householder feels now better.

Taking care not to act wrong oneself is already outstanding. Don't think much need to do before tht is perfect.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Even if the whole would have been quoted, the replay wouldn't change, so the question. No problem, the opposite, if householder feels now better.

Taking care not to act wrong oneself is already outstanding. Don't think much need to do before tht is perfect.

Ah...... I don't think that English is your first language, maybe....?

But to make the point very clear..... In order to deter crime and loss, specialists have to think in the same way as villains and criminals so that they can then introduce better protections.

It was nice to share posts with you.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The challenge in achieving proper understanding of the Qur'an and of Islaam itself is not nearly so much in what is in the book, as in what both fail to include and to be.

Ironically enough, given their self-imposed mission and particularly their main strategy, both suffer mainly from falling short of what they purport to be.

There are indeed parallels with Christianity, but they end up highlightning how incomplete and flawed Islaam is, out of its own fault. Christianity is not quite as determined in forbiding itself from ever being a functional religion. It is not quite as obsessed with God for the sake and glory of monotheism. It is not quite as taken by hubris (another grim irony).

Because the Qur'an is ultimately a rulebook for dealing with its God and with the separation between believers in its message and Other People, it does not actually aim to be scripture, no matter how oblivious to that simple fact so many Muslims and so many of the critics of Islaam end up being. A scripture has religious intent. The Qur'an does not meddle in religious matters, although it makes an impressive effort at telling otherwise.

Insistence does not always attain results. Islaam falls short by its own stated parameters, because it is hopelessly confused by its own message, which suffers from teaching worship of monotheism and calling that religion.

Monotheism is not religion, and it is not even particularly healthy for religiosity. But it is superb as fertile ground for fanaticism and social illness, and it shows.

The Sira, the Hadiths and various personal, social and cultural circunstances sometimes aggravate those flaws. But far more often, it seems to me, they actually attempt to compensate for them, often to great success. Alas, that only means that Islaam needs its own heretics to save its worth and viability. Going back at least to the Battle of the Camel, the best and wiser among Muslims have a hard time trying to find reasons not to leave it entirely.

I believe the Quran and Islám with the appearance of Prophet Muhammad marked a huge and essential milestone for the evolution of humankind. A marked step was from that of individualism which Christ taught towards the establishment of the nation state which the Dispensation of Muhammad achieved with constitutions such as the Constitution of Medina, the very first such charter in the world recognising officially, as citizens other religious minorities.

The Quran is the first fully authentic historical record of the fight for religious freedom, now a cornerstone of human rights throughout the entire planet backed up by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Thus is what Muslims really died and fought for under the constant threat of genocide by the Meccans for believing in one God.

The Quran forbids all forms of violence except in self defence, calls its followers to return good for evil and to seek peace with all. (These are all verses I can find if required)

Terrorists are not true Muslims. They do not obey the Quran’s calls to peace and goodwill but use mainly fabricated hadiths which have nothing whatever to do with Muhammad or the Quran.

Mullás and religious leaders with political ambitions for both power and wealth manipulate those who are naive and gullible to commit atrocities but oddly never offer themselves up as a sacrifice.

What the world sees of terrorism on the nightly news comes neither from Muhammad nor the Quran but from evil Mullas who treat themselves as gods and have no real allegiance to Muhammad or the Quran who incite death and destruction.

We Baha’is believe that every religion has its Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter and this includes Islam.

Their own hadiths predict that winter. We Baha’is don’t follow hadiths as accurate unless they have been quoted in our Writings. This one was quoted.

The Qur'an Project

38. The Prophet Muhammad said, “There will come a time on the people when there will re- main nothing of the Islam ex- cept its [ism] name and nothing will remain of the Qur’ān except its [rasm] outward form. Their masjids will be full of people/very well built but will be empty of guidance. Their scholars will be the most evil under the heavens; from them [fitnah] turmoil will emanate from them and to them will it return.”
Source: Baihaqi, Shu’bul Iman no. 2/788

So there was a time when the Sun of Islam shine brightly and Baghdad became the Centre of Learning for all the world.

Now it’s Sun has set and the Sun of Bahá has risen over the horizon and as it shines brighter peace and unity will be restored to our world and then it will set and so on.

Just because we are living in the winter of any religion does not mean it did not bring many blessings, benefits and progress to humanity. But once it’s Sun does set it ceases to exercise any great beneficial influence over the world anymore.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I'm not easily offended, but I can see how the cartoon would be offensive to some Muslims.

Whether or not Islam has Divine origins is not the main concern of this thread for me. Whatever the origins, over 1,400 years since Muhammad had His first visions, it has become a religion that around one quarter of the world's population identify with. From reading the Quran it is easy for me to appreciate how the words could have been positively transformative for so many. I can also appreciate from some passages and the history of Islam how fundamentalism and extremism have resulted. In turn another form of extremism has arisen where the religion of Islam is denigrated and vilified. I don't know if Islamophobia is the best word. I've seen all this happen with the religion I grew up with, Christianity. Now I'm trying to make better sense of how history has unfolded in regard both Islam and Christianity.

Hi Adrian.

Just thought you and Tony might like this PDF.

The Qur'an Project

This is the Islamic source for the quote by the Shoghi Effendi in the Promised Day is Come about the ‘winter of Islam’ so to speak.

Here’s the Muslim quote

38. The Prophet Muhammad said, “There will come a time on the people when there will re- main nothing of the Islam ex- cept its [ism] name and nothing will remain of the Qur’ān except its [rasm] outward form. Their masjids will be full of people/very well built but will be empty of guidance. Their scholars will be the most evil under the heavens; from them [fitnah] turmoil will emanate from them and to them will it return.”
Source: Baihaqi, Shu’bul Iman no. 2/788

Here’s the Guarduan’s quote. Says it all really I think don’t you?

“A day shall be witnessed by My people," their own traditions condemn them, "whereon there will have remained of Islám naught but a name, and of the Qur'án naught but a mere appearance. The doctors of that age shall be the most evil the world hath ever seen. Mischief hath proceeded from them, and on them it will recoil.”

The Promised Day Is Come
Shoghi Effendi
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I've never heard of them being inspired by any other thing but religion. If they were, they would be just terrorists, not Jihadists.

Are you kidding? Do a quick and dirty rundown on the British or French or US in the Middle East from any point of view.
 

Wasp

Active Member
I've never heard of them being inspired by any other thing but religion. If they were, they would be just terrorists, not Jihadists.
They didn't become what they are because they were called jihadists. They started doing and the ignorant started calling them jihadists.
 
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