Tolerance to offenses

[Vinayaka]

Differences make it more fun.

Indeed. Entering a new (to you) Hindu temple is a situation of expectation. All of them vary.

 

[DeviChaaya]

You guys are talking about the difference in style between a North Indian style temple (Wannabe Yogi) and a South Indian style temple. (Jainarayan) Both of you are correct. It is another sense of 'speaking from personal experience only'. In almost all North Indian style temples there is a place where yopu can do your own Siva Abhishekaham. In the moolasthanams of South India, they will definitely kick you out. In the west, for the South Indian style ones like at Jainarayan's, there are often big signs like 'Only priest allowed", and the North Indians are shocked that they aren't allowed.

When I went home to Darwin for the Christmas of 2011, I attended the local Ganesha temple. It was only opened on Fridays and it was a primarily South Indian style temple (on the inside!) but had signs all around that begged the attendees to respect the different religious cultures of those from the North and South.

It was a Ganesh temple with Ganesh's shrine in the centre. To Ganesh's left was the shrine for Shiva and Mataji, including the lingam. It was here the sign mentioned respecting different religious cultures and I saw one or two people of Indian persuasion touching the lingam. Because of this I felt safe to touch the lingam respectfully just as I would at the Durga Mandir I attend. While I couldn't do abhishekam to the lingam, I was still able to touch it.

I feel a bit left out at southern temples because there is the huge prohibition against touching the lingam. This is the one form of Shiva's in which he invites us to partake and yet I am not allowed to.

 

[Vinayaka]

Depends on what you're used to. I feel very very odd doing the abhishekham to a lingam unless it is clearly for this purpose. (And even then I feel odd.) In South Indian temples, its not the lingam itself, but rather whichever God is inside the moolasthanam. Whether it be Venkatersawa, Ganesha, Murugan, or any of several Ammans, devotees are not allowed inside, period.

I like feeling 'left out' as you put it. It makes the whole idea of respected sacred space highlighted for me.

But you hit on a good point. No matter where we are, it is good to respect the customs of the local temple, local culture. But it the temples did that in reverse, it would turn into some chaotic free-for-all.

 

[Maya3]

I did not know this at all. My temple is South Indian and we usually partake in the Shiva Pujas. But it's always during the "official" pujas no one does it on their own that I have seen.

Maya

 

[chinu]

Am I mistaken or Shiva is much more tolerant to offenses than Krishna? Or at least more patient or less demanding with devotees?

Shiva means the power/lord which is residing in everyone's heart. Similarly.. Krishna resides in Vishnu, and vishnu further means the power/lord which is residing in everyone's stomach, or at navel centre.

Shiva is said to be the lord of death, as our heart beat is responsible for our death, and Vishnu is said to be the lord of parenting, as our stomach or navel centre is responsible to change the food into blood and send it to the different parts of the body through different vessel/veins.(Means the center which is parenting the whole body)

Now the answer to your question
As heart is said to be a compassionate part in our body, Thus.. it means the lord of heart, or Shiva is tolerant to offenses. But as heart is very delicate part too.. Thus.. it means the lord of heart, or Shiva can get angry even at a small fault too.

As the duty of lord Krishna is something else, Thus.. the word compassionate is not used for "Him"

 

[Jainarayan]

for the South Indian style ones like at Jainarayan's, there are often big signs like 'Only priest allowed"

You are spot on. There are 3 or 4 steps leading from the temple floor to the threshold of the outer portion of the sanctum, then there is the threshold to the inner sanctum where the deity resides. There are engraved metal signs on the steps to the outer threshold saying in effect (I don't remember the exact wording) "No one allowed past this point". In effect a devotee would be entering the garbhagriha on their own.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think I've been to about 40 - 50 temples in North America, maybe more. No 2 are alike. Depends on the people who built it, and where they came from, some 20 Indian states, + several other countries, like Guyana, Fiji, Sri Lanka, and Trinidad. The individual with the biggest ego or strongest will will dominate the people who have less attachment to it, and that is a determiner as well. Some have spiritual advisors like Gurus, other don't. Some use agamas, others don't. Some buy existing properties like churches. others start from scratch. Some have tons of money, others don't. Some have about 30 core families, others may have 100. Some are attached to organisations (ISKCON, Swaminarayan, Sai Centers). So no wonder it varies.

Still there are those that generalise that all other HIndu temples must be like the one they go to. Natural tendency of the mind - to generalize, but in this case presenting many inaccuracies or misconceptions.

 

[Viraja]

I've also seen on Indian TV - that in many Jyotirlingas (in India), they actually do allow the devotees to personally touch and offer prayers like abhisheka to the lingam. I've been astounded on seeing this. But one thing I can say is that while Vaishnava temples might not allow this, their intention is to keep the moola vigraha untainted from lack of cleanliness of the devotees and nothing else is the reason. Besides, the lord does not expect any superficial thing from the devotee if the devotee cannot afford it due to his life's circumstances. Afterall, so many, many devotees are Krishna's and Vishnu's 'adhyantha bhaktas' - hair stylists (Sena), potter (Gora Kumbar), even Alwars from non-brahmin castes have been held in special place in history for being lord's most favored bhaktas - from this, we know Vishnu or Sriman Narayana or any of his avatars aren't expecting the superficial things, but it is upto a capable Vaishnavite to uphold the standards for atmost cleanliness in devata worship and guidelines are followed for the same for deha is related to Atma and cleanliness of the body yields to purity of mind.

 

[agorman]

Thank you very much for all your unexpected and interesting answers with facts about Hindu temples I didn't even suspect. I hope someday to be blessed with wealth, so I have the means to travel and visit India and some of its temples.

As for the answer to my question, most posts confirmed my feelings and what a friend once told me; that Shiva is easier to approach. Especially for an occidental like me who is still a beginner in Hinduism, living in a country which has next to no Indian immigration (although it has some Hinduist organizations as ISKCON, ISEVAR, Hastinapura, Ramakrishna foundation... I prefer to be a solitary practitioner anyway).

Chinu, I found your answer most interesting. You've actually said much more than what you wrote. Thank you very much! :bow:

 

[Omkara]

When I was little, my family used to joke about Shaivites' strict regimen - I am a South Indian Vaishnavite, I am talking about other South Indian Shaivite Brahmins (called 'Iyers').

I assure you, as an Iyer, the sentiment is mutual.
Are you an Iyengar?

 

[Viraja]

I assure you, as an Iyer, the sentiment is mutual.
Are you an Iyengar?

I am.