Too many echo chambers?

[SomeRandom]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

 

[Brickjectivity]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I purposely undermine algorithms when I can. They try to send more of whatever I seem to have used before, and I recognize this as an attempt to coral my interests. I want to spread out not contract in. I want to grow not become the grinch. I'm not saying I am at the mercy of social media algorithms, but what I am saying is that they would have me serve them rather than serve me. They are analogous to the Amazon search engine. Its not about me. Its about Amazon. Social media algorithms also are not about me. They are like corrupt prime ministers. They come to me like sycophants pretending to love and care for me, but what they aim to do is to control me so that they can pretend to others that they possess my power.

The analogy is not far off. Each user is like a king or queen. The algorithm is a prime minister, but you have to keep an eye on that prime minister. You must sneak out at night and go on tour and must do research on your own. Occasionally you must embarrass your prime or even replace them.

*(I have had some wine.)

 

[Quintessence]

Here's the interesting thing.

For a long time now, I've mindfully cultivated the environment I expose myself to because I developed an awareness that we become what we are surrounded by in our environment. There is a lot of value to be had in knowing yourself, knowing your tribe, and staying within certain boundaries to live a good life and be the person you want to be. Because I'm also relentlessly curious this doesn't turn too insular, but it means I keep away from the cesspool of capitalist advertising (my ad exposure is near zero), venues filled with hate speech and vitriol (no thanks), and sources of factual information that have credibility problems (my librarians taught me well). I don't need or want any of that in my life. When I make the mistake of foraying into those arenas, it is... unpleasant.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I do a pretty good job of managing this, on the whole.
The political podcasts I listen to probably lean libertarian as much as anything, if I was to draw an overall line. I stay away from most mainstream news, and instead have some particular news sites I frequent, which are fairly centrist overall.

I don't do Social Media at all apart from LinkedIn (for work) and Untappd (for beer) and even those are sporadic.

My basketball pods and sites are varied. Sure, that's not a political thing, but there is an ongoing struggle between analytics based analysis and the 'eye-test', so getting both perspectives is valuable.

There are things I listen or watch that are more politically aligned with my position to start with, but they're in the minority, I would say.

I am a fairly typical resident of my local area, in a political sense. That's more than enough confirmation bias!

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I don't really debate much anymore, I just read and reply to what I find interesting. I'm constantly challenging my thoughts on my own though, so that helps.

 

[DharmaCatLamp]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I mean people have been creating echo chambers throughout history, the only real difference today is that those echo chambers happen to be online in public spaces. What were political rallies a hundred years ago open to ideas which differed from the mainstream of the rally? Of course not.

Entire towns and cities often had narratives that you couldn't really deviate from. You couldn't be a protestant in certain areas or a catholic in others as an example.

The problem with the internet in this regard is that it encourages those echo chambers in away you just couldn't previously. It seems to me that by default people are not really interested in having their beliefs questions and have been willing to kill and die for their beliefs for ages. The difference now is that you can join an echo chamber and be completely isolated otherwise.

The skeptic movement on youtube is a good example of this. A lot of skeptics can be pointed to as people in mostly religious communities who rejected the narrative of that community. They find solidarity online and form little atheist pockets or communities. All well and good but if you know what happened to the skeptic community and how it evolved into a weird sexist thing overtime you could point out that their rejection of anything which didn't conform to their narrative lead them to a different kind of echo chamber.

I frequently ask folks around me if what I am saying makes sense. That isn't because I want to avoid echo chambers so much as I want to get as close to the truth as I can and you need people to question you to do that. It also helps make ideas more coherent over time.

 

[F1fan]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

For the most part, I avoid it. I do have circles of friends on social media that are well educated and reasonable, so the discussions are very stable and informative. This includes mostly liberals and a few conservtives. My weeding out is those not well educated and rational. The disruptive sorts I have no use for. I don't think weeding out crazy people makes my circle an echo chamber.

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”

I also have circles oen to all types that includes many conservatives and it is tiresome to see the disinformation they post. In my experience I can have discussions with conservatives like Liz Cheney, where we discuss ideas and policies. But many of your average conservative citizes are not very savvy as thinkers, and much of their content is rhetoric. I've tried having discussions but it becomes a pile on of disinformation and insults. These are people like Majorie Taylor Greene, just loud mouths with little intellect. There is no converstaion to be had. Sorry, I have tried, it doesn't happen.

Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I've had friends and family who have got full Qanon, and there is no discussion to be had. They make outlandish claims, I disagree it's true, and they blow a fuse.

 

[The Hammer]

Here's the interesting thing.

For a long time now, I've mindfully cultivated the environment I expose myself to because I developed an awareness that we become what we are surrounded by in our environment. There is a lot of value to be had in knowing yourself, knowing your tribe, and staying within certain boundaries to live a good life and be the person you want to be. Because I'm also relentlessly curious this doesn't turn too insular, but it means I keep away from the cesspool of capitalist advertising (my ad exposure is near zero), venues filled with hate speech and vitriol (no thanks), and sources of factual information that have credibility problems (my librarians taught me well). I don't need or want any of that in my life. When I make the mistake of foraying into those arenas, it is... unpleasant.

Remind me to follow in your footsteps lol.

 

[The Hammer]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

There are certainly a lot of echo chambers out there now. But I try to be aware of which ones I keep company with, and I almost never fully agree with everything any one group advances. With that, I also expose myself to dissenting viewpoints, unless I find that it is becoming toxic (which a lot of it is these days), especially in regards to politics which I'm finding my taste for souring, and I've drifted from discussing it. Preferring instead to read up on issues and vote my conscience.

 

[SomeRandom]

I mean people have been creating echo chambers throughout history, the only real difference today is that those echo chambers happen to be online in public spaces. What were political rallies a hundred years ago open to ideas which differed from the mainstream of the rally? Of course not.

Entire towns and cities often had narratives that you couldn't really deviate from. You couldn't be a protestant in certain areas or a catholic in others as an example.

The problem with the internet in this regard is that it encourages those echo chambers in away you just couldn't previously. It seems to me that by default people are not really interested in having their beliefs questions and have been willing to kill and die for their beliefs for ages. The difference now is that you can join an echo chamber and be completely isolated otherwise.

The skeptic movement on youtube is a good example of this. A lot of skeptics can be pointed to as people in mostly religious communities who rejected the narrative of that community. They find solidarity online and form little atheist pockets or communities. All well and good but if you know what happened to the skeptic community and how it evolved into a weird sexist thing overtime you could point out that their rejection of anything which didn't conform to their narrative lead them to a different kind of echo chamber.

I frequently ask folks around me if what I am saying makes sense. That isn't because I want to avoid echo chambers so much as I want to get as close to the truth as I can and you need people to question you to do that. It also helps make ideas more coherent over time.

Valid points.

I am still somewhat saddened by the Skeptic community’s “downfall.”
Those guys were ironically the ones who taught younger me the value of constantly questioning one’s beliefs.
Only a few of the “OG Skeptics” managed to avoid turning into…. well what they are now.
But a new breed has cropped up in that “area” I guess. So that’s encouraging.

 

[Heyo]

How many do you belong to, do you think?

About three. That might by far not be enough to have an overview but I try to also have a life. My YouTube bubbles are science, atheism and independent news (which also have some overlap). The algorithm works fairly well in feeding me what I like.

 

[SomeRandom]

For the most part, I avoid it. I do have circles of friends on social media that are well educated and reasonable, so the discussions are very stable and informative. This includes mostly liberals and a few conservtives. My weeding out is those not well educated and rational. The disruptive sorts I have no use for. I don't think weeding out crazy people makes my circle an echo chamber.

I would agree

I also have circles oen to all types that includes many conservatives and it is tiresome to see the disinformation they post. In my experience I can have discussions with conservatives like Liz Cheney, where we discuss ideas and policies. But many of your average conservative citizes are not very savvy as thinkers, and much of their content is rhetoric. I've tried having discussions but it becomes a pile on of disinformation and insults. These are people like Majorie Taylor Greene, just loud mouths with little intellect. There is no converstaion to be had. Sorry, I have tried, it doesn't happen.

Truth be told I only know of MTG from what I hear from the news and the Lefty degenerates I follow online (and I say that with love!)
She’s umm yeah. Makes my politicians look sane by comparison lol

I've had friends and family who have got full Qanon, and there is no discussion to be had. They make outlandish claims, I disagree it's true, and they blow a fuse.

I’m so sorry to hear that
Again my only exposure to Q is through the Leftys I follow. But yeah they have interesting beliefs I’ll say

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Here's the interesting thing.

For a long time now, I've mindfully cultivated the environment I expose myself to because I developed an awareness that we become what we are surrounded by in our environment. There is a lot of value to be had in knowing yourself, knowing your tribe, and staying within certain boundaries to live a good life and be the person you want to be. Because I'm also relentlessly curious this doesn't turn too insular, but it means I keep away from the cesspool of capitalist advertising (my ad exposure is near zero), venues filled with hate speech and vitriol (no thanks), and sources of factual information that have credibility problems (my librarians taught me well). I don't need or want any of that in my life. When I make the mistake of foraying into those arenas, it is... unpleasant.

Agree with this 100%. Be curious, but have boundaries. Try new things, but allow yourself to be surrounded by the things you enjoy, too. Explore your limits, but have downtime in places that make you happy.

 

[DharmaCatLamp]

Valid points.

I am still somewhat saddened by the Skeptic community’s “downfall.”
Those guys were ironically the ones who taught younger me the value of constantly questioning one’s beliefs.
Only a few of the “OG Skeptics” managed to avoid turning into…. well what they are now.
But a new breed has cropped up in that “area” I guess. So that’s encouraging.

Yeah it's kinda weird, a lot of the skeptics became weirdo right wing nutter butters. I was genuinely surprised the Amazing Atheist seems to be at least okay which is not what I was expecting.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah it's kinda weird, a lot of the skeptics became weirdo right wing nutter butters. I was genuinely surprised the Amazing Atheist seems to be at least okay which is not what I was expecting.

Right?!
It’s like they just shifted all their arguments they had for creationism and just supplanted it onto the “woke SJWs” or whatever

Amazing Atheist left that sort of “pipeline” fairly quickly. I think he comes across as a bit oafish but he’s one of the few “OGs” that stuck to his skeptic roots, more or less. Albeit after a slip up here and there lol
Which I agree is a little surprising

 

[Estro Felino]

It's a matter of curiosity.
Knowledge has no boundaries. The unknown can be certain, possible, probable, improbable, impossible.
But the unknown can be intriguing to some and scary to others.
I think echo chambers are shelters, in which one feel safe and protected, because the unknown can really scare.
Imho.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How many do you belong to, do you think?
Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”

Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I am basically a loner, in religion, in politics. I know my views are different from nearly all other people. But that has never bothered me.
I can still have company of my relatives irrespective of their religious or political views. I belong to them and they belong to me. No breakdown with them ever.
At my age, I do not meet many other people.
I state my views succinctly and forcefully. I will debate till the other person is out of breath.
Worry! Never.

 

[Samael_Khan]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I originally belonged to a religion which was an echo chamber as entertaining alternative views seriously was a sin.

I used to be on the far right pipeline echo chamber on youtube, which I didn't know was far right, and enjoyed watching how crazy the woke sjws were getting destroyed.

Then I went exploring and joined the socialist echo chamber.

Then I wondered why the hell I cared about all this American politics as I am South African and the gender and trans issues do not affect me. The racial issues do but not the Amercian version of them. To which I realized that Youtube automatically uses many topics as a pipeline down the American political echo chamber, manufacturing the idea in our minds that the world is polarized between conservative and leftist political worldviews, which is an American thing.

Now I actively do not engage with those topics and am trying to readjust my alghorithm to explore atheist, christian, theosophical, hindu, daoist and mythological material, which is proving successful. The only echo chamber that remains is the atheist one, but I almost exclusively watch videos by Atheist Republic when it comes to atheism as they aren't just about hating religion.

 

[DharmaCatLamp]

Right?!
It’s like they just shifted all their arguments they had for creationism and just supplanted it onto the “woke SJWs” or whatever

Amazing Atheist left that sort of “pipeline” fairly quickly. I think he comes across as a bit oafish but he’s one of the few “OGs” that stuck to his skeptic roots, more or less. Albeit after a slip up here and there lol
Which I agree is a little surprising

For awhile I went along with the skeptics to that sort of right wing way of thinking. Sargon of Akkad and the like among others. It's really funny thinking I ever used to think those guys were brilliant.

Don't worry though, there is still room for skepticism and all that. Heck despite my rather strong religious convictions these days I still maintain a skeptical attitude about a lot of things. Still it would of been nice if they didn't all start screaming "REE SJWS! MY FREE SPEEEECCCHHHHH"

 

[Estro Felino]

I am basically a loner, in religion, in politics. I know my views are different from nearly all other people. But that has never bothered me.
I can still have company of my relatives irrespective of their religious or political views. I belong to them and they belong to me. No breakdown with them ever.
At my age, I do not meet many other people.
I state my views succinctly and forcefully. I will debate till the other person is out of breath.
Worry! Never.

Debate is what makes life intellectually rich.
But debate challenges others' certainties. And without those certainties, some people feel lost.