Too many echo chambers?

[SomeRandom]

For awhile I went along with the skeptics to that sort of right wing way of thinking. Sargon of Akkad and the like among others. It's really funny thinking I ever used to think those guys were brilliant.

Don't worry though, there is still room for skepticism and all that. Heck despite my rather strong religious convictions these days I still maintain a skeptical attitude about a lot of things. Still it would of been nice if they didn't all start screaming "REE SJWS! MY FREE SPEEEECCCHHHHH"

I so agree
I followed Sargon for a while too, so don’t feel too bad lol.
I was a huge fan of the Skeptics during my high school days.
Bible Reloaded, Creationist Cat, Aron Ra, Thunderf00t, Armored Skeptic etc

Crazy to think how that sphere ended up.
Though Creationist Cat did humorously call them out for it a few times. Aron I think was too old to understand the memes but old enough to understand that he shouldn’t associate with that crowd lol
And the hosts of Bible Reloaded are now full leftists lol

 

[danieldemol]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I've found that by clicking on the links by right wing conservatives and religious fundamentalists on RF and reading through what they are saying those algorithms have all become led astray and guide me to information that is outside my bubble so to speak.

In my opinion.

 

[SomeRandom]

I've found that by clicking on the links by right wing conservatives and religious fundamentalists on RF and reading through what they are saying those algorithms have all become led astray and guide me to information that is outside my bubble so to speak.

In my opinion.

I mean, fair enough

 

[LuisDantas]

Personally, I stand unconviced that "bubbles" are quite the meaningful, well-established thing that apparently some have decided that they are.

Far more than ethnic or belief clusters, ideas transit are perhaps the true wealth of these (and other) times. There is only so much that can be done by repeating the lines of one's confort zones.

Mutual understanding, despite being mispresented in perverted ways by the alt-right and other groups, has no real substitute.

The way I see it, we are currently leaving through a time of actual bubble-bursting. The hatred and misinformation that feeds some so-called bubbles and makes others necessary can't really sustain itself for very long; at some point sanity has to reascertain itself, no matter how passionately many may hope otherwise.

 

[Estro Felino]

Personally, I stand unconviced that "bubbles" are quite the meaningful, well-established thing that apparently some have decided that they are.

Far more than ethnic or belief clusters, ideas transit are perhaps the true wealth of these (and other) times. There is only so much that can be done by repeating the lines of one's confort zones.

Mutual understanding, despite being mispresented in perverted ways by the alt-right and other groups, has no real substitute.

The way I see it, we are currently leaving through a time of actual bubble-bursting. The hatred and misinformation that feeds some so-called bubbles and makes others necessary can't really sustain itself for very long; at some point sanity has to reascertain itself, no matter how passionately many may hope otherwise.

Who states what truth is?
What authority ascertains what information is and what misinformation is?
That is what I will never understand.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Who states what truth is?
What authority ascertains what information is and what misinformation is?
That is what I will never understand.

Science, though it does not have all answers. Truth is a long journey.

 

[Stevicus]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

The only echo chamber I have is the one inside my head. This is kind of like it is when I'm posting:

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

So, in todays world of technology, perhaps some social isolation (depending on where you live I guess) and being at the whim of the algorithm used by social media in general (constantly recommending to you similar content by default, which can easily turn into “rabbit holes”) how do you think you fair in regards to your little echo chambers? And have you managed to break past any?
How many do you belong to, do you think?
By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something. Politics, gaming, anime whatever. Making it much harder to hear opinions contrary to you and your “clique.”
Do you intentionally avoid that?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”
Like say a friend ends up getting caught up in conspiracy theories and you find it harder to communicate with them? Or maybe someone you know has gone very hard into a specific political direction and it’s harder to speak to them about politics than it used to be?
Any similar experiences? Any you’ve witnessed that causes you to worry?

I don’t do too much online…

I come here and I don’t know this for sure, but I’m guessing that when I click “New Posts”, what I see are the latest new posts, not just “new posts” that may interest me?

I have AdBlocker everywhere, so that’s nice - no advertising distracting my trail of thoughts.

I watch live news from different countries, in different languages, on different channels. I choose to watch them live because I imagine it’s more difficult for the information to be selected especially for me.

I don’t have social media (except for twitter, which I don’t actually read).

I watch myself!

But yes, I notice changes in my nearest and dearest. Obsessions, rather that reflections. And absolutely, I find it worrying (and tiresome to listen to too).

Still, it is our current world and our current way of life. I do not fight what is; that is the calling of another (others). Mine is to observe, reflect, converse and find new ways by which to flow harmoniously with what becomes. All callings are of value and have their own unique roles to play.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[MikeF]

I frequently ask folks around me if what I am saying makes sense. That isn't because I want to avoid echo chambers so much as I want to get as close to the truth as I can and you need people to question you to do that. It also helps make ideas more coherent over time.

I fully agree with your sentiments above. I would only add that it is not easy to do well or efficiently. There are times I reject a conflicting narrative out of hand, but after some time or repeated exposure find a point of compromise or some value in the other perspective. It takes effort to continually reevaluate ones world view.

 

[MikeF]

Debate is what makes life intellectually rich.
But debate challenges others' certainties. And without those certainties, some people feel lost.

I quite enjoy debate, but if I sense the other person is becoming uncomfortable in the discussion, I will disengage.

The other issue I try to address is maintaining a moderate tone in the discussion. Sometimes it's ok to be flippant or snarky for a little levity, but that's limited and requires timing. When the temperature starts to rise in a conversation, it takes a conscious effort to not rise with it. I'm not always successful, but that is my goal.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

By echo chambers I’m referring to having a little “bubble” of sorts where it’s hard to find dissenting voices and instead you’ve managed to find like minded people who share most of your views on something.

There are large swathes of society not worth listening to at all. They are the ones who are significantly intellectually and morally challenged. I'm really only interested in what decent, thoughtful people have to say, well educated critical thinkers. It turns out that they are mostly liberal humanists (this includes some theists, who basically share the same values as atheistic humanists). If you're a faith-based thinker, your conclusions have no value to me.

If you lack empathy, such as the gun people, the forced birth people (please spare me about their empathy for fetuses), and the racists, your opinions don't matter. If you're a MAGA Republican, your opinions don't matter. These are not people to share ideas with. They are people to keep an eye on, so listening to them is merely surveillance. Did you support Trump knowing who he was? If so, I don't care at all what you think is right or wrong, or what you think about politics. It's a litmus test, since in my estimation, it is absolutely impossible for a decent person of at least average intelligence to come to such a conclusion.

But having segregated that aspect of society, there is still a lot of diversity of opinion in the residual contingent. The critical thinker doesn't passively take his opinions from others. He may consider them, but unless they resonate with him and he feels that he can and should defend them, he rejects them.

This whole idea of listening to these other people as if they might have something worthwhile to say is rejected. They are not people to compromise with or cozy up to. Just decent, contemplative people, and by decent, I mean exhibiting humanist values. This does not exclude the liberal theists (Abrahamic, dharmic, pagan, whatever), who, as I mentioned, I consider decent, compassionate, and thoughtful people - fellow humanists. These other hateful, mindless people have nothing to offer, so why listen to them?

Do you think that such a phenomenon has contributed to any sort of breakdown in communication “across enemy lines?”

Yes. It obviously has with me. There is nothing I want to hear from them, and nothing I can teach them. I don't consider them fellow anythings, and they are not included in my "we." I am indifferent to their fates. I consider this an appropriate reaction to an unfortunate reality. No, this is not how I would like to feel about anybody. I wish they didn't exist. But they do and excluding them from my "bubble" of reason and compassion is constructive.

 

[SomeRandom]

There are large swathes of society not worth listening to at all. They are the ones who are significantly intellectually and morally challenged. I'm really only interested in what decent, thoughtful people have to say, well educated critical thinkers. It turns out that they are mostly liberal humanists (this includes some theists, who basically share the same values as atheistic humanists). If you're a faith-based thinker, your conclusions have no value to me.

If you lack empathy, such as the gun people, the forced birth people (please spare me about their empathy for fetuses), and the racists, your opinions don't matter. If you're a MAGA Republican, your opinions don't matter. These are not people to share ideas with. They are people to keep an eye on, so listening to them is merely surveillance. Did you support Trump knowing who he was? If so, I don't care at all what you think is right or wrong, or what you think about politics. It's a litmus test, since in my estimation, it is absolutely impossible for a decent person of at least average intelligence to come to such a conclusion.

But having segregated that aspect of society, there is still a lot of diversity of opinion in the residual contingent. The critical thinker doesn't passively take his opinions from others. He may consider them, but unless they resonate with him and he feels that he can and should defend them, he rejects them.

This whole idea of listening to these other people as if they might have something worthwhile to say is rejected. They are not people to compromise with or cozy up to. Just decent, contemplative people, and by decent, I mean exhibiting humanist values. This does not exclude the liberal theists (Abrahamic, dharmic, pagan, whatever), who, as I mentioned, I consider decent, compassionate, and thoughtful people - fellow humanists. These other hateful, mindless people have nothing to offer, so why listen to them?



Yes. It obviously has with me. There is nothing I want to hear from them, and nothing I can teach them. I don't consider them fellow anythings, and they are not included in my "we." I am indifferent to their fates. I consider this an appropriate reaction to an unfortunate reality. No, this is not how I would like to feel about anybody. I wish they didn't exist. But they do and excluding them from my "bubble" of reason and compassion is constructive.

Harsh but ultimately fair.
I have watched the “alt right” from afar for a while now.
Whilst I try not to write anyone off, as it were. It’s hard not to with some of the behaviour I have witnessed if I’m being completely honest.

 

[Stevicus]

This whole idea of listening to these other people as if they might have something worthwhile to say is rejected. They are not people to compromise with or cozy up to. Just decent, contemplative people, and by decent, I mean exhibiting humanist values. This does not exclude the liberal theists (Abrahamic, dharmic, pagan, whatever), who, as I mentioned, I consider decent, compassionate, and thoughtful people - fellow humanists. These other hateful, mindless people have nothing to offer, so why listen to them?

Well, in some cases, it's hard to get away and not listen, especially if you grow up with them, if they're part of your family, if they're in your neighborhood and community. But they're often easy to tune out. They're not really saying that much new; most of it has been the same basic rhetoric I remember from Birchers and their fellow travelers from 40-50 years ago. At least in my state, the legacy of Barry Goldwater is fading, but still present in some parts. Of course, my own area is somewhat liberal compared to the rest of the state, and the state itself is starting to become more purplish. But it's pretty much a mixed bag, politically speaking.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well, in some cases, it's hard to get away and not listen, especially if you grow up with them, if they're part of your family, if they're in your neighborhood and community. But they're often easy to tune out. They're not really saying that much new; most of it has been the same basic rhetoric I remember from Birchers and their fellow travelers from 40-50 years ago. At least in my state, the legacy of Barry Goldwater is fading, but still present in some parts. Of course, my own area is somewhat liberal compared to the rest of the state, and the state itself is starting to become more purplish. But it's pretty much a mixed bag, politically speaking.

What’s a “Bircher?”

 

[Stevicus]

What’s a “Bircher?”

Some light reading: John Birch Society - Wikipedia

 

[LuisDantas]

Who states what truth is?
What authority ascertains what information is and what misinformation is?
That is what I will never understand.

Mainly, it is all a matter of not trying too hard to believe in lies.

Apparently a major challenge for many, but I can't really understand why.

 

[DharmaCatLamp]

I so agree
I followed Sargon for a while too, so don’t feel too bad lol.
I was a huge fan of the Skeptics during my high school days.
Bible Reloaded, Creationist Cat, Aron Ra, Thunderf00t, Armored Skeptic etc

Crazy to think how that sphere ended up.
Though Creationist Cat did humorously call them out for it a few times. Aron I think was too old to understand the memes but old enough to understand that he shouldn’t associate with that crowd lol
And the hosts of Bible Reloaded are now full leftists lol

I will admit I never took Aron Ra very seriously because he takes himself too seriously lol

 

[SomeRandom]

I will admit I never took Aron Ra very seriously because he takes himself too seriously lol

Fair enough