"Traditional values": what are yours?

[Alceste]

For the purpose of this thread, "traditional values" is to be defined as values and ethics you learned from the contemplation of your own direct ancestors as far back as you are aware of the stories of their lives. No vague generalizations and no idealization of a hypothetical past when things were better than they are today.

I'll start. I get my "traditional values" from my grandparents on my mother's side. My grandmother comes from a large pioneering family who emigrated to Canada from Russia in about 1910 or so. They built a homestead in the middle of Saskatchewan, miles from anywhere. My great grandfather believed in education, but he had to make it happen - he rallied the community to build a school and pay for a teacher, providing education up to grade 8. My grandmother boarded with a family in a bigger town to finish her high school education. Eventually, she married my grandfather, who came from an entire family of very creative and intelligent inventor-entrepreneur types.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but I should cut to the values I've learned from their stories:

1. Never take anything for granted.
2. Never spend more than you earn.
3. If it's broke, just fix it and quit whingeing about it.
4. Even if it ain't broke, it could probably still be improved upon in some way.
5. Be kind to strangers and an active participant in your community.
6. Grow food, because you'll probably need to one day so you might as well get started.
7. Never throw anything away that can still be used for something.
8. Play almost as hard as you work.
9. A leader does not put others in danger to protect himself. (There's a story there).
10. Never tell anyone who grew up during the depression on a large farm that you're "bored" or you'll soon find yourself on your hands and knees scrubbing the cracks in the linoleum with a toothbrush.

Anyone else?

 

[Sunstone]

Looking back, there seems to have been a great emphasis in my family put on the value of liberty and due process of law.

 

[Alceste]

Looking back, there seems to have been a great emphasis in my family put on the value of liberty and due process of law.

Ooh, good for them! My family, lovely as they are, are a touch rednecky in that department.

 

[blackout]

I can't think of anything.

Well... later in life I saw that my father valued the arts.
I also value the arts.

 

[Caladan]

A part of my family came to Israel from Russia generations back and took part in founding what is named the first Hebrew agriculture town (my home town/city). these were my great great grand parents of my mother's side, the kind of pioneers who dried swamps, fought malaria etc. these people founded what later became modern Israeli cities in desolate areas while being challenged with harsh circumstances.
my great grandfather was a philantropist and a maverick in the orchard industry, he studied from the Arabs in the area all sort of methods and applied them to the developing field, teaching other people the work. he had many Arab friends, to the point of having Arab villagers coming to his store to warn him about impeding raids from the 'fedayeen'. he used to 'adopt' children who were less fortunate and give to them freely, one time when his wife asked him what about their children, he said to her.. 'all children are my children, and my children are God's children'
my grandfather was born in Poland, and losing almost his entire family as far as we know in Sobibor extermination camp, was a soldier in Ander's army (Polish army under the British command), the men who formed this army, were the survivors of the masses of people who were exiled by the Soviet secret police to Siberia, they marched out of Siberia under unbearable conditions in order to form the Anders army, a march which most people did not survive.
later when my grandfather came to live in Israel he joined the Haganna and took part in the general defense against raids from the fedayeen. the military tradition kept going in our family (after all service here is mandatory), my uncle was a combat soldier, and I was as well.
my grandparents practically raised me, as I used to come to their home everyday after kindergarten and then school, and I received a great deal of my values from them, I was inspired to look into a lot of topics while spending time there, it was even there that I was exposed to wonderful stories of the Greek mythology.
My father made alyiah with his family to Israel from Casablanca, Morocco when he was a child. and from a family which lacked means he built himself to the position of management.

The values I received include the love of land and people, to be sensitive to the needs of the less fortunate, to offer to others from what you have, and be a healthy component in a community or society, my grandfather was amazingly sensitive to the needs of people and family, I can only take inspiration from that, but never really reach his level.

 

[Alceste]

Thanks for sharing your story, Caladan. Being sensitive to the needs of the less fortunate and a healthy component of the community was a deeply ingrained characteristic in my grandparents too. You could almost say it's ... traditional!

 

[BucephalusBB]

-If you are playing a game, your target is to win, not to let the other win because (s)he can't stand losing. Neither should you play less if you are way better than the other, IT DOES NOT IMPROVE THE GAME/FUN!
-If you lost the game however, there is no problem. Your opponents mission was to win and (s)he was better. That's it.
-If you can't stand losing, please NEVER play games!

I agree with the:
-If it ain't broken, improve it!
..O and always the read the manual before whining..

 

[BucephalusBB]

Never throw anything away that can still be used for something.

Funny, mine would be:
If you didn't use something for more than a year, throw it away, it's rubbish and taking up usefull space..

 

[Alceste]

Funny, mine would be:
If you didn't use something for more than a year, throw it away, it's rubbish and taking up usefull space..

Wow, somebody's ancestors didn't grow up on a farm during the depression!

Wampus and I are going to stay with my grandmother in a couple of months. She's 90, and has been living alone for quite a few years now. I'm getting kind of excited, actually. I expect to learn a few things. Cinnamon buns and borscht from scratch, for starters. How to grow food, for another. Making jam. And I hope to listen to a lot of pioneer stories, too.

(That wasn't in response to your post - just a thing that popped into my head. My grandma is awesome).

 

[BucephalusBB]

Wow, somebody's ancestors didn't grow up on a farm during the depression!

Nope, but I did move a friend of mine and stopped helping him when I carried a box stuffed with empty beercans because he used to collect them 10 years ago and refused to throw them away. When I asked where they needed to go to he said "attic". I put the box down and told him I would only carry things wich were important. He couldn't even tell me his beercans were important, just that he couldn't throw them away.

Besides, a farm could perhaps hold a lot of stuff.. Most houses here in the centre of a town, cannot..

 

[The Middle]

For the purpose of this thread, "traditional values" is to be defined as values and ethics you learned from the contemplation of your own direct ancestors as far back as you are aware of the stories of their lives. No vague generalizations and no idealization of a hypothetical past when things were better than they are today.

I'll start. I get my "traditional values" from my grandparents on my mother's side. My grandmother comes from a large pioneering family who emigrated to Canada from Russia in about 1910 or so. They built a homestead in the middle of Saskatchewan, miles from anywhere. My great grandfather believed in education, but he had to make it happen - he rallied the community to build a school and pay for a teacher, providing education up to grade 8. My grandmother boarded with a family in a bigger town to finish her high school education. Eventually, she married my grandfather, who came from an entire family of very creative and intelligent inventor-entrepreneur types.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but I should cut to the values I've learned from their stories:

1. Never take anything for granted.
2. Never spend more than you earn.
3. If it's broke, just fix it and quit whingeing about it.
4. Even if it ain't broke, it could probably still be improved upon in some way.
5. Be kind to strangers and an active participant in your community.
6. Grow food, because you'll probably need to one day so you might as well get started.
7. Never throw anything away that can still be used for something.
8. Play almost as hard as you work.
9. A leader does not put others in danger to protect himself. (There's a story there).
10. Never tell anyone who grew up during the depression on a large farm that you're "bored" or you'll soon find yourself on your hands and knees scrubbing the cracks in the linoleum with a toothbrush.

Anyone else?

I'm no Ben Franklin when it comes to translating traditional values into pithy quotes, plus I don't believe in holding to traditional values without examining or reforming them, but I would say that I've retained my parents' values with respect to the importance of education and family.

 

[Alceste]

I'm no Ben Franklin when it comes to translating traditional values into pithy quotes, plus I don't believe in holding to traditional values without examining or reforming them, but I would say that I've retained my parents' values with respect to the importance of education and family.

I guess what I'm trying to discover is what the values of older generations are, and whether they have much in common - it doesn't really matter if they became your values in the end. Most of the things I listed are not my own values. That's kind of the point.

My ulterior motive, I might as well explain, is that people talk about "traditional family values" these days, and I suspect that what is presented as "traditional values" might not accurately reflect what the values of our ancestors actually were.

Not that this thread is going to settle the question once and for all, I'm just curious, that's all.

 

[Duck]

For the purpose of this thread, "traditional values" is to be defined as values and ethics you learned from the contemplation of your own direct ancestors as far back as you are aware of the stories of their lives. No vague generalizations and no idealization of a hypothetical past when things were better than they are today.

I'll start. I get my "traditional values" from my grandparents on my mother's side. My grandmother comes from a large pioneering family who emigrated to Canada from Russia in about 1910 or so. They built a homestead in the middle of Saskatchewan, miles from anywhere. My great grandfather believed in education, but he had to make it happen - he rallied the community to build a school and pay for a teacher, providing education up to grade 8. My grandmother boarded with a family in a bigger town to finish her high school education. Eventually, she married my grandfather, who came from an entire family of very creative and intelligent inventor-entrepreneur types.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but I should cut to the values I've learned from their stories:

1. Never take anything for granted.
2. Never spend more than you earn.
3. If it's broke, just fix it and quit whingeing about it.
4. Even if it ain't broke, it could probably still be improved upon in some way.
5. Be kind to strangers and an active participant in your community.
6. Grow food, because you'll probably need to one day so you might as well get started.
7. Never throw anything away that can still be used for something.
8. Play almost as hard as you work.
9. A leader does not put others in danger to protect himself. (There's a story there).
10. Never tell anyone who grew up during the depression on a large farm that you're "bored" or you'll soon find yourself on your hands and knees scrubbing the cracks in the linoleum with a toothbrush.

Anyone else?

Given the conflicting values growing up (on the one hand, "pay your bills, don't live beyond your means" vs. "you can't get blood from a turnip") from Dad vs Mom, I am pretty conflicted. From Dad there was the sense of face your problems and deal with them (to a point), from Mom there was the sense of becoming overwhelmed by the smallest difficulty and drinking until you forgot about it or at least cried on your son's shoulder and later passed out.

So, I have pretty much had to set my own "traditions" as I don't have a son to cry on and I hate having a hangover (granted Mom probably never really had one as I doubt she was truly sober while I was growing up).

I have a strong (possibly genetic?) bias towards being a pack-rat, I have finally 21 years after graduation from High School acknowledged that my trigonometry notes and homework can be let go, but it was hard, oh so hard, to do that. So, I tend to keep things I haven't used in years and years...but I acknowledge that behavior isn't the most conducive to the ease of mind brought on by uncluttered living.

I feel strongly that debts must be paid and should be paid promptly, even if it means personal deprivation to do so, but Mom taught me to that instant gratification is a the way to go, even if you have to be rather cavalier about due dates, or even payments. So I tend to binge and purge with my credit cards, and being a pack rat this impulse shopping tendency is pretty problematic ("ooh! That's neat I MUST have one, right now! I have no idea what it is or does!"...2 years (sometimes months) later..."ooh! That's neat I MUST have one, right now! I have no idea what it is or does!"...upon arrival at home, "crap! I have one all ready, still in the shrink wrap! oh, well, now I have 2!").

So, I basically have to navigate through some very conflicting "traditions" to find my way. Often I just wing it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Alceste,

"Traditional values": what are yours?

Personally there would be many and few maybe comes out unconsciously. However always try to be conscious and respond in a manner such that it is a fresh matter without a past or future. It is HERE-NOW. Meaning that neither follow any tradition or attempt to start any.
Rather it is a Pathless Path.

Love & rgds

 

[Kathryn]

My ancestors were an adventurous lot.

One was an officer on a ship with Captain James Cook in the 1700s. The notation beside his name in the ship's log was "Wild and drinking." My ancestors on my father's side moved to the New World in the 1640s, to the Pennsylvania area. When that got too "civilized," they moved to Virginia. When THAT got too civilized, they moved to South Carolina. When THAT got too civilized, they moved further west and settled in Louisiana, Arkansas, and Texas (and some would say we're still here because we're still not civilized!).

One of my great-greats fought in the battle of Goliad in Texas, and wrote an amazing diary entry about surviving by faking being a doctor, and "treating" one of the Mexican officers (who somehow recovered from whatever ailed him, which was total luck for my ancestor, because not only did he not know what was wrong with the guy, and didn't speak any Spanish, but he also had given him some sort of elixer he had found somewhere - and he had no idea what it was).

My great-great-great grandfather and grandmother served as a medic and a nurse with the Confederate Army, traveling with the troops from battlefield to battlefield.

One of my great-great-great grandfathers was injured in battle during the Civil War. He was shot through the jaw. He soaked a rag in gin, ran it through the wound, wrapped it around his jaw, and just kept going. His name, by the way, was Lafayette. I always thought that was a cool name.

My dad's father and two uncles were pilots. They were trick pilots who did stunts like fly through barns, under bridges, etc. During WW2, instead of having them serve overseas, the US Army/Air Force recruited them to teach others to be fighter pilots. This career distracted them awhile from their "real" job, which was opening a chain of theaters across the southern US, and making movies - when "moving pictures" were the newest thing, theaters were glamourous, and people dressed up to "go to the show." My dad filled my head with stories about going to California to watch Lash LaRou cowboy movies being made. Once as a teenager, my uncle let us visit the set of a movie he was making (he made some truly terrible movies) and I had breakfast with Jacqueline Smith and Slim Pickens. The movie was "The Bootleggers" and it's truly one of the worst films ever made! When Jacqueline Smith became famous in Charlie's Angels, my uncle renamed the movie, "The Bootlegger's Angel." Trust me, it really sucks.

My mother's mother was an artist and an unconventional woman. She smoked a pipe, and wore this colorful poncho and a beret most of the time. When my grandfather retired, they traveled together on a barge, up and down the bayous and rivers of Louisiana, and she painted portraits of people. As she painted them, she got to know them, so she included a poem about each person along with the portrait. She also had a sort of exotic zoo for awhile - with monkeys, alligators, and strange birds. She painted murals for church baptistries as well, in a folk art sort of style.

My father is a Vietnam veteran who flew reconnaissance missions. He is also an entrepreneur. For several years he owned a self defense school called Counter Attack, which was pretty interesting.

He also worked for ten years with an organization called The Navigators, which is a non denominational Christian ministry that serves active duty military personnel. During that time in my childhood, we had a large, finished basement with bunkbeds, and as my father trained new team leaders for that ministry, they lived with us for about six months at a time. So our house was always full of dashing young military officers and NCOs, from every sort of racial and cultural background, who sat around our table every night, loudly debating religious and sociological topics.

My mother is an artist who paints beautiful landscapes and portraits. She has always reveled in her career as a homemaker.

My ancestors have served for every generation and in every war in the United States since the Revolutionary War.

This legacy of bravery and, let's face it, weirdness, taught me to be independent, creative, and to stand by my convictions. My ancestors taught me to (for lack of a better phrase) "think outside the box." They also instilled an intense dislike of government bureaucracy. They taught me to "work smarter, not harder."

Their unconventional lifestyles and world travel also taught me to be open minded about other lifestyles and groups of people.

This is my favorite gift from my ancestors.