Transgender athlete

[Jimmy]

I support lgbtq's but I think transgenders in sports is unfair for obvious reasons. They should have there own league. That would be cool. I guess I don't really care either way though. Just tryin to think of a fair way. I mean can you imagine a bodybuilder size trans 230 lb. on a football field with 130 lb women? I mean where do u draw the line? It's nonsensical. I mean if your going to do something then do it right? You can't discriminate against the gladiator can u?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Even experts like Catlin Jenner agree it's an unfair matchup.

People need to acknowledge there are limits, and need to stop pretending it dosent matter when it clearly does.

 

[SomeRandom]

Even experts like Catlin Jenner agree it's an unfair matchup.

People need to acknowledge there are limits, and need to stop pretending it dosent matter when it clearly does.

I dunno. The science isn’t definitive on this yet.
Sports scientists do agree that a lot of athletes now technically have their own advantages and disadvantages, based on their own unique biological makeup (due to this thing called Evolution, giving people different adaptions. But that’s just my uneducated guess.)
For example the gold winning breastroke/freestyle Olympic athlete Ian Thorpe actually has more lung capacity than even the average athlete. Something he was actually born with and occurred entirely naturally.
Arguably this gives him a biological advantage and he has even had to defend his own gold medal legacy from time to time. He’s since retired though. So I doubt he cares too much lol

With transition arguably starting at younger ages than it was before, with the use of puberty blockers, one could make the argument that such biological differences don’t always have a chance to actually occur in the case of some trans athletes. In others it might.

This might come down to a case by case basis.
Though truth be told, I honestly don’t care lol.

 

[icehorse]

Call me reductionist, but I think two things in this domain:

- transitioning shouldn't start too early
- People with XX should compete with people with XX, and XYs should compete with XYs

 

[Twilight Hue]

Call me reductionist, but I think two things in this domain:

- transitioning shouldn't start too early
- People with XX should compete with people with XX, and XYs should compete with XYs

Yeah. Having class leagues should be a thing.

They do it in boxing. Featherweight, heavyweight etc.

It would solve a lot of issues and not diminish a sport.

 

[Jimmy]

Yeah. Having class leagues should be a thing.

They do it in boxing. Featherweight, heavyweight etc.

It would solve a lot of issues and not diminish a sport.

Eh defensive ends are big running backs are small

 

[SomeRandom]

Call me reductionist, but I think two things in this domain:

- transitioning shouldn't start too early
- People with XX should compete with people with XX, and XYs should compete with XYs

Ahh the infamous Foekje Dillema
Fascinating stuff
Don’t know if chromosome reductionism is all too helpful, to be completely honest. That would bar quite a few athletes who might not even be aware they have differing chromosomes. I mean when was the last time you got yours checked?

Foekje Dillema - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ahh the infamous Foekje Dillema
Fascinating stuff
Don’t know if chromosome reductionism is all too helpful, to be completely honest. That would bar quite a few athletes who might not even be aware they have differing chromosomes. I mean when was the last time you got yours checked?

Foekje Dillema - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Interesting, and it merits a "Informative" frubal. I do miss the old frubal system.

As to other claims that there should be a special league for trans people and intersex that does not really work either. This is a complex problem when it comes to sport and participation. For those that value participation inclusivity is what governs their thinking. Many athletes want a fair competition and there may not be a way to have one when it comes to incorporating trans people.

 

[SomeRandom]

Interesting, and it merits a "Informative" frubal. I do miss the old frubal system.

As to other claims that there should be a special league for trans people and intersex that does not really work either. This is a complex problem when it comes to sport and participation. For those that value participation inclusivity is what governs their thinking. Many athletes want a fair competition and there may not be a way to have one when it comes to incorporating trans people.

In the old system I’d give your post a “useful frubal.”
I miss the old system too lol

 

[Augustus]

Sports scientists do agree that a lot of athletes now technically have their own advantages and disadvantages, based on their own unique biological makeup (due to this thing called Evolution, giving people different adaptions. But that’s just my uneducated guess.)
For example the gold winning breastroke/freestyle Olympic athlete Ian Thorpe actually has more lung capacity than even the average athlete. Something he was actually born with and occurred entirely naturally.
Arguably this gives him a biological advantage and he has even had to defend his own gold medal legacy from time to time.

It’s a common argument, but it’s pretty specious as logic doesn’t really follow.

Once you select for elite athletes, being the tallest doesn’t make you the best basketball player, largest lung capacity or biggest feet doesn’t make you the best swimmer, etc. Being given any biological metric wouldn’t enable you to pick the winner consistently. They increase your probability of being an elite athlete, but don’t define your rank within the category.

An elite male athlete who transitions though will absolutely dominate the female category. You could very easily pick the winner every time. Having undergone male puberty would define your rank within the category.

It also allows sun-elite males to become elite females after transition (for example Lia Thomas).

 

[SomeRandom]

It’s a common argument, but it’s pretty specious as logic doesn’t really follow.

Once you select for elite athletes, being the tallest doesn’t make you the best basketball player, largest lung capacity or biggest feet doesn’t make you the best swimmer, etc. Being given any biological metric wouldn’t enable you to pick the winner consistently. They increase your probability of being an elite athlete, but don’t define your rank within the category.

An elite male athlete who transitions though will absolutely dominate the female category. You could very easily pick the winner every time. Having undergone male puberty would define your rank within the category.

It also allows sun-elite males to become elite females after transition (for example Lia Thomas).

What if said athletes take puberty blockers and thus don’t actually experience puberty until after their transition?
Does that make any meaningful difference?

 

[Augustus]

What if said athletes take puberty blockers and thus don’t actually experience puberty until after their transition?
Does that make any meaningful difference?

AFAIK there isn’t enough evidence on this to make any meaningful conclusions.

It’s possible that transwomen who did not undergo male puberty can compete fairly, although other anatomical differences may still have effects.

 

[SomeRandom]

AFAIK there isn’t enough evidence on this to make any meaningful conclusions.

It’s possible that transwomen who did not undergo male puberty can compete fairly, although other anatomical differences may still have effects.

Fair enough.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I support lgbtq's but I think transgenders in sports is unfair for obvious reasons. They should have there own league. That would be cool. I guess I don't really care either way though. Just tryin to think of a fair way. I mean can you imagine a bodybuilder size trans 230 lb. on a football field with 130 lb women? I mean where do u draw the line? It's nonsensical. I mean if your going to do something then do it right? You can't discriminate against the gladiator can u?

I also think that in most cases, the transgenders will be taking hormonal medication that would be seen as doping in any other circumstance.

In general, I think people should understand that your life choices have consequences. You are free to make them, but they might come at a price.
A body builder that doesn't play by the rules of a competition will also be barred to enter it.

So why would transgenderism be any different?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Call me reductionist, but I think two things in this domain:

- transitioning shouldn't start too early
- People with XX should compete with people with XX, and XYs should compete with XYs

The XX transgenders will be under the influence of performance altering doping though.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The XX transgenders will be under the influence of performance altering doping though.

Which would explain why we do not see any transmen Olympic level athletes. At least none that I am aware of. I could be wrong.

 

[metis]

Other than for a minority of athletes, it's all about playing games and/or being entertained, so why worry about transgender in this context?

 

[Kfox]

I support lgbtq's but I think transgenders in sports is unfair for obvious reasons. They should have there own league. That would be cool. I guess I don't really care either way though. Just tryin to think of a fair way. I mean can you imagine a bodybuilder size trans 230 lb. on a football field with 130 lb women? I mean where do u draw the line? It's nonsensical. I mean if your going to do something then do it right? You can't discriminate against the gladiator can u?

Why don't they just go by biology instead of gender? If you are a biological male; you play on the men's team, and if you are a biological female, you play on the women's team regardless of how you see yourself. That should solve everything.

 

[Augustus]

Other than for a minority of athletes, it's all about playing games and/or being entertained, so why worry about transgender in this context?

Even if you don’t care about fairness, it’s a health and safety issue in many sports so you can’t simply say let people compete in whatever category they want.

 

[metis]

Even if you don’t care about fairness, it’s a health and safety issue in many sports so you can’t simply say let people compete in whatever category they want.

I didn't imply the latter, and I do care about fairness, which is one reason I do believe transgender people should have the opportunity to compete with other people as there's so few of them willing to do that. If another athlete doesn't want to compete against them, that's their choice.