Transgender athlete

[Koldo]

Like fast twitch muscle fibres etc. for sprinting (if we could measure them accurately with new technology)?

Yet you rejected this idea despite it being a more impactful metric than height as it basically amounts to a 100m sprint for slow people.

Most sports probably don’t even have a key metric, football for example.


It’s not a knee jerk reaction. It’s genuinely a ludicrous idea.

How many people do you think refuse to play basketball when they want to simply because they are too short?

It doesn’t increase inclusion really, it simply reduces the chance you will play at a higher level.

Small guy NBA and slow guy Olympic sprinting create more problems than they solve. Making a handful of sports slightly fairer but still massively unfair does nothing except create new sports no one really wants to watch.

Disability sport makes it possible to play sport when otherwise it might be impossible, it also redefines attitudes towards disability and encourages others to take up sports.

These are qualitatively different.

I have rejected the idea because athletics is fundamentally different as I have said. There is barely any skill involved. By the way, it is also the reason I don't see the point of a 100 meters women competition. It is essentially a 100 meters for slow people. The very thing you seem to disapprove. But if people are interested in watching slow people running, more power to them.

You have not shown any problem that small guy NBA creates.

 

[Koldo]

We could label them unworkable because they are unworkable though, right?

As long as you can show them to be unworkable, sure.

 

[Augustus]

By the way, it is also the reason I don't see the point of a 100 meters women competition. It is essentially a 100 meters for slow people. The very thing you seem to disapprove. But if people are interested in watching slow people running, more power to them.

Personally I think women’s sports are a good thing for reasons already mentioned.

Prestigious elite level competition is essential for women’s sports to reach their full potential.

You have not shown any problem that small guy NBA creates.

You get 2 inferior NBAs.

An extra 1250 games that no one wants.

Small guy league will be impoverished and instead of seeing small guys develop a game to compete with bigs they will just be bigs in a small league.

 

[Koldo]

Personally I think women’s sports are a good thing for reasons already mentioned.

Prestigious elite level competition is essential for women’s sports to reach their full potential.



You get 2 inferior NBAs.

An extra 1250 games that no one wants.

Small guy league will be impoverished and instead of seeing small guys develop a game to compete with bigs they will just be bigs in a small league.

I wasn't aware you are able to speak for everyone. You should have said so from the start, that would have settled it already.

 

[Augustus]

I wasn't aware you are able to speak for everyone. You should have said so from the start, that would have settled it already.

Sorry, forgot the silent majority was waiting for the small man NBA messiah to lead them to the promised lands of 2 inferior NBAs.

I’ve also heard there are massive orderly queues already forming in Kyoto for thin guy sumo.

You’re right, there’s a massive market for it. I’ll be less presumptuous next time

 

[Koldo]

Sorry, forgot the silent majority was waiting for the small man NBA messiah to lead them to the promised lands of 2 inferior NBAs.

I’ve also heard there are massive orderly queues already forming in Kyoto for thin guy sumo.

You’re right, there’s a massive market for it. I’ll be less presumptuous next time

I wasn't aware there was a massive number of people that wanted to watch all of the many women categories we currently have in the multiple sports. Or teenagers categories. Or...

I am afraid that since I can't talk to ghosts, I can't assess how many ghosts have been watching those games. And invisible people, those too. Never managed to get in touch with them. The Stadiums must all be really crowded. I just can't see those people.

 

[Augustus]

I wasn't aware there was a massive number of people that wanted to watch all of the many women categories we currently have in the multiple sports. Or teenagers categories. Or...

I am afraid that since I can't talk to ghosts, I can't assess how many ghosts have been watching those games. And invisible people, those too. Never managed to get in touch with them. The Stadiums must all be really crowded. I just can't see those people.

No idea what you are on about, but the NBA is currently very popular and there is no demand for a small guy league even if you, for some unimaginable reason, think there is.

Ditto small guy high jump, thin guy sumo, fat man show jumping, etc.

 

[Kfox]

1) There is an underlying premise here that short players that can't compete with tall players are bad players, in the sense they would be bad playing the game even if competing with other short people. This is unfounded. Why are you worried about who is going to finance it? Am I saying it is going to come out of your pocket or something? Why do you care?

2) Literally just check the list of NBA players and their height. The shortest player has the average height of an adult male in the US. The average height of a NBA player is MUCH higher than the height of an average male adult in the US. Tell me now that height is not very impactful with a straight face and that this is just a coincidence.

My point is; there is a lot more to making millions in the NBA than just height (otherwise all tall people would be in the NBA). There are a lot of factors involved that you can't tell by just looking at a person but are just as important as height; so building restrictions around height without addressing everything else doesn't fix anything. However it's your idea, you can dream as you please.

 

[Koldo]

No idea what you are on about, but the NBA is currently very popular and there is no demand for a small guy league even if you, for some unimaginable reason, think there is.

Ditto small guy high jump, thin guy sumo, fat man show jumping, etc.

Read that post again, because you are commenting on something I didn't say. I didn't even mention the NBA.

 

[Koldo]

My point is; there is a lot more to making millions in the NBA than just height (otherwise all tall people would be in the NBA). There are a lot of factors involved that you can't tell by just looking at a person but are just as important as height; so building restrictions around height without addressing everything else doesn't fix anything. However it's your idea, you can dream as you please.

I have never suggested not addressing other factors that might be as impactful as height. To say otherwise is a strawman.

 

[metis]

Are you denying biological differences between male and female? Look; if there is anything you disagree with that I said, tell me; I don't have time to read a 10 page Wikipedia page that likely has nothing to do with what I am talking about

If you are not willing to look at an objective source, then I know what your problem is on this.

Again, it's hormones that are the main driver of sexual attraction.

 

[Augustus]

Read that post again, because you are commenting on something I didn't say. I didn't even mention the NBA.

Like I said, it didn’t make much sense. Reading it again doesn’t change that.

I don’t think women’s sport is a bad thing though if that’s your point, even if it is less popular.

 

[Koldo]

I am going to state my view here:

It is silly to forbide trans women from competing against cisgender women because of a biological advantage when no one cares if biological advantages are unfair in almost all other cases. It is just a selective outrage.

 

[Koldo]

Like I said, it didn’t make much sense. Reading it again doesn’t change that.

I don’t think women’s sport is a bad thing, even if it is less popular.

Then whether something is popular is inconsequential. Yet, you mentioned lack of popularity as an excuse not to have a league for short basketball players. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either popularity is a must or it is not.

 

[Augustus]

I am going to state my view here:

It is silly to forbide trans women from competing against cisgender women because of a biological advantage when no one cares if biological advantages are unfair in almost all other cases. It is just a selective outrage.

Caring about safety for girls is prejudice!

If you don’t support thin guy sumo you’re a bigot!

 

[Augustus]

Then whether something is popular is inconsequential

Not when proposing reform to very popular professional sports.

Is it really that difficult for you to grasp?

 

[metis]

I am going to state my view here:

It is silly to forbide trans women from competing against cisgender women because of a biological advantage when no one cares if biological advantages are unfair in almost all other cases. It is just a selective outrage.

Well said, and that is exactly the point, which leads me to believe that there's something else likely to be their actual motive.

 

[Koldo]

Caring about safety for girls is prejudice!

If you don’t support thin guy sumo you’re a bigot!

It is a valid concern when talking about full contact sports. But what about all others?

 

[Koldo]

Not when proposing reform to very popular professional sports.

Is it really that difficult for you to grasp?

It is easy to understand that many people worship the status quote just because it is the status quo. It has always been this way.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As long as you can show them to be unworkable, sure.

You want us to implement your ideas, just so we have proof they don't work?
You realise that's...err...unworkable. Right?
At some point pragmatism has to get a run in these ideological talkfests.