Transgenderism

[Emma Pope]

I think a better question is why shouldn’t they be able to? Why should some people suffer because other people want to impose some nonsense about “common law” (whatever that is). How is it any of your business?

Are you a believer that anything a person decides to do is justified because it does not affect your life? Also, do you believe in changes in race or marriage to animals? Because those would both be okay using your logic.

 

[Emma Pope]

That seems like an extremely far-reaching statement. Are you sure you wish to hold to it?

It isn’t a select few being given the option, anyone could take up the same option if they want and need to.

If they have no desire to change their body by losing weight then obviously they would have to come to terms with who they are. Equally, plenty of people with various forms of gender identity issues don’t choose to take any medical intervention, maybe even not making significant changes to their natural appearance as they’ve come to terms with who they are.

Others wish to go a different way and that is their choice. An overweight person, especially one who is overweight due to genetic or medical conditions can and should get support in losing weight, up to and including surgical options available where appropriate for their individual circumstances. A person with gender identity issues should similarly have support available and may seek surgical options as appropriate to them.

Really? Have you had a haircut recently?

no correlation to transgenderism.

 

[Emma Pope]

It's not one particular structure but the overall brain shape. A brain is pretty much a brain, but there are nevertheless some subtle differences between a male and female brain. The brains of transgender people looks more like what they identify as (which nature/DNA gave them) rather than what they were assigned at birth (which DNA also gave them).

What makes what the brain "says" more important than what the DNA proves.

 

[fantome profane]

Are you a believer that anything a person decides to do is justified because it does not affect your life? Also, do you believe in changes in race or marriage to animals? Because those would both be okay using your logic.

I don’t support abusing animals. Nor do I think a marriage to your cat should be recognized legally.

But yes, if it harms no one it is ok.

Interfering with someone’s personal decision regarding transitioning does do harm. That can do a lot of harm to that individual. So I strongly oppose that kind of interference.

 

[Jainarayan]

I am not excluding those born as hermaphrodites. I am speaking purely in those who are born with the Chromosomes either XX or XY. Feelings should not cause us to alter our bodies in any way. One can strongly dislike the body that they are born with, but that is completely normal and people all around the world are forced to live with it. Why should a select few get to change something about themselves that they dislike. If someone was overweight and they showed no intention of loosing excess weight that made them hate themselves, would it be right for them to not try to accept what they have been given and make the best of it like the rest of the population. They are free to act however they choose, but they should not be allowed to alter the body that they were given in order to change something of that nature.

An important point, if not the most important point, you're missing either deliberately or unintentionally is that there are thousands of genes on all 46 chromosomes, which includes the sex chromosomes, that can express in myriad ways, including self-image of sex and gender. Just because a person's sex chromosomes are XX or XY does not mean that the genes on those chromosomes are going to express as binary male or female. Besides, not everyone believes in your God or is bound by what your religion says. Religion has nothing to do with biology or genetics.

 

[shmogie]

I think a better question is why shouldn’t they be able to? Why should some people suffer because other people want to impose some nonsense about “common law” (whatever that is). How is it any of your business?

They can be whomever or whatever they choose to be. It is their fantasy and their life.

However, don't try and compel me to embrace the fantasy if I choose not to.

When I see a man, and I know it is a man based upon a number of physical characteristics, dressed like a woman, I will not adopt the fantasy. I ceretainly will be respectful and try not to be offensive, but I will not join this game.

 

[shmogie]

Chromosomes aren't the only part of the biological structure of gender. There is also anatomy, brain structure, and hormones which can develop in the opposite direction from each other. It's science, baby!

Gender is a social term for a hazy concept of mental adoption of a variety of identities regarding sex.

Sex is the scientific term for physical characteristics identifying one as male or female.

Conflating the two is a not so subtle attempt make them mean the same, they do not

 

[fantome profane]

They can be whomever or whatever they choose to be. It is their fantasy and their life.

However, don't try and compel me to embrace the fantasy if I choose not to.

When I see a man, and I know it is a man based upon a number of physical characteristics, dressed like a woman, I will not adopt the fantasy. I ceretainly will be respectful and try not to be offensive, but I will not join this game.

I have no intention of compelling to do or think anything. I really couldn’t care less.

 

[shmogie]

An important point, if not the most important point, you're missing either deliberately or unintentionally is that there are thousands of genes on all 46 chromosomes, which includes the sex chromosomes, that can express in myriad ways, including self-image of sex and gender. Just because a person's sex chromosomes are XX or XY does not mean that the genes on those chromosomes are going to express as binary male or female. Besides, not everyone believes in your God or is bound by what your religion says. Religion has nothing to do with biology or genetics.

Please provide evidence of the above.

Respectfully, I suggest that your idea that chromosomes "express" in different ways regarding sex and gender is at best a very poorly evidenced hypothesis.

In other words, a conclusion for which identifiable proof is required.,

 

[shmogie]

It's not one particular structure but the overall brain shape. A brain is pretty much a brain, but there are nevertheless some subtle differences between a male and female brain. The brains of transgender people looks more like what they identify as (which nature/DNA gave them) rather than what they were assigned at birth (which DNA also gave them).

This idea has been abandoned by most scientific researchers, along with the idea that differences are caused by brain size.

 

[shmogie]

I have no intention of compelling to do or think anything. I really couldn’t care less.

Good ~! That;'s the way it should be

 

[Jainarayan]

Please provide evidence of the above.

Respectfully, I suggest that your idea that chromosomes "express" in different ways regarding sex and gender is at best a very poorly evidenced hypothesis.

In other words, a conclusion for which identifiable proof is required.,

You're joking, right?

Moreover, did you actually read the words I wrote?

"...there are thousands of genes on all 46 chromosomes, which includes the sex chromosomes, that can express in myriad ways, including self-image of sex and gender." I didn't say do express, I said can express. Given that is how genetics works across the genome, you prove to me they can't.

Aw, what the heck...

Causes of transsexuality - Wikipedia
New Evidence Points To Genetic Link To Being Transgender

 

[HonestJoe]

no correlation to transgenderism.

It is changing your body because of your feeling, which it what you unconditionally spoke against though. Isn’t it the case that you want to present this simplistic line because it’s easier than making an actual argument against transgender surgery?

You also didn’t address the question of the person who is overweight choosing surgical options to address their condition. Wouldn’t this also fall under your prohibition on “changing your body” too?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A human being is born as one of two absolute genders, male or female. Some anomalies occur such as hermaphrodites, but that is not my point. Why should individuals be able to change their genders based on a feeling rather than listening to the common laws of genders.

Trans people don't "changing their genders;" their gender identity is what it is. They (often) change their gender expression to match their gender identity.

If an individual has XX as their chromosomal pair, then they are female. If they have XY, they are male. Why should they be allowed to change it.

Wait - what do you mean by "why should they be allowed?" Are you talking about making it illegal for a trans person to express their gender?

 

[Emma Pope]

I don’t support abusing animals. Nor do I think a marriage to your cat should be recognized legally.

But yes, if it harms no one it is ok.

Interfering with someone’s personal decision regarding transitioning does do harm. That can do a lot of harm to that individual. So I strongly oppose that kind of interference.

I don’t support abusing animals. Nor do I think a marriage to your cat should be recognized legally.

But yes, if it harms no one it is ok.

Interfering with someone’s personal decision regarding transitioning does do harm. That can do a lot of harm to that individual. So I strongly oppose that kind of interference.

What about the psychological effects transgenders experience after their change or the suicide rates amongst these people? Seems like your ignoring some facts.

 

[Maria Morrell]

Chromosomes aren't the only part of the biological structure of gender. There is also anatomy, brain structure, and hormones which can develop in the opposite direction from each other. It's science, baby!

The anatomy, brain structure and hormones directly correspond to the chromosomes. Through DNA, the body is formed as well as the chemicals within.

 

[fantome profane]

What about the psychological effects transgenders experience after their change or the suicide rates amongst these people? Seems like your ignoring some facts.

Then educate me please. I am willing learn. Are suicide rates really higher among those who choose to transition? If we prevented people who wanted to transition from doing so would that decrease suicide rates or increase them? What are these “facts” you think I am ignoring? What are your sources?

 

[fantome profane]

The anatomy, brain structure and hormones directly correspond to the chromosomes. Through DNA, the body is formed as well as the chemicals within.

Exactly right. Genetics affects physiology of people born with hermaphroditism and genetics affects the neurology of people who are transgender. It may be more subtle, but essentially no different. If you acknowledge the rights of one you should acknowledge the rights of both.

 

[Maria Morrell]

Then educate me please. I am willing learn. Are suicide rates really higher among those who choose to transition? If we prevented people who wanted to transition from doing so would that decrease suicide rates or increase them? What are these “facts” you think I am ignoring? What are your sources?

According to Ryan T. Anderson, PhD who is the Senior Research Fellow in American Principles and Public Policy,

The most thorough follow-up of sex-reassigned people—extending over 30 years and conducted in Sweden, where the culture is strongly supportive of the transgendered—documents their lifelong mental unrest. Ten to 15 years after surgical reassignment, the suicide rate of those who had undergone sex-reassignment surgery rose to 20 times that of comparable peers.

This is in a society that is even supportive to transgender people. This just strengthens the claims that this who undergo the transition are more likely to commit suicide, especially in a society that is not supportive.

Sex Reassignment Doesn’t Work. Here Is the Evidence.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Why should individuals be able to change their genders based on a feeling rather than listening to the common laws of genders.
… they should not be allowed to alter the body that they were given in order to change something of that nature.

This is the point, isn't it? Who, in your view, is to decide what people should be allowed to do? Your church, I suspect.