Transgenders

[Jainarayan]

I do however know that i would not like my child to get "the talk" from another five year old.

Hey, some 5 year olds know more than their parents.

 

[Rhynni]

The decision to have the kind of body that is needed to seek their happiness?

It looks like you are expecting a problem to exist where there is none.

Immediate gratification though? couldnt "she have tried counseling or something first?

 

[LuisDantas]

5 year olds are fully aware of the existence of men and women. There is no good reason why they can't also learn and readily accept that there are those who aren't quite either, or are both (intersexuals) or have been born with a kind of body that does not really work for what they are.

It is not all that different from learning that there are people who need cosmetic surgery, or peacemakers.

 

[LuisDantas]

Immediate gratification though? couldnt "she have tried counseling or something first?

What do you mean by "immediate gratification"?

Most transexuals do try counseling. A few even decide that they don't need surgery. For the many others, there is no reason for them to feel bound to a body that frustrates and depresses them.

 

[Rhynni]

Though I still don't see any mistake.

Neither do i

People are all too quick to blame God, y'know?

I think so. Again this is not me. were talking about someone who is in fact atheist. But im not. and i still make moral decisions based on my faith. so im just looking at it in my own perspective. no fault there?

 

[Rhynni]

What do you mean by "immediate gratification"?

Like she has to have it right now. and is leaving her whole family, wife and five kids, behind to do it. its selfish i think

 

[Jainarayan]

Most transexuals do try counseling. A few even decide that they don't need surgery.

My friend went through extensive counseling, with one psychiatrist even suggesting that he (before the transitioning) find a relationship with another guy. That was a totally unattractive idea, not because he was homophobic, but because evidently he was asexual at the time. Whether she is now with a man after transitioning to a woman, I don't know. I don't know if she ever had the surgery. We lost direct contact over 30 years ago.

 

[Rhynni]

Hey, some 5 year olds know more than their parents.

bahaha. well I and the younger kids in my family, certainly did not.

5 year olds are fully aware of the existence of men and women. There is no good reason why they can't also learn and readily accept that there are those who aren't quite either, or are both (intersexuals) or have been born with a kind of body that does not really work for what they are.

It is not all that different from learning that there are people who need cosmetic surgery, or peacemakers.

Okayy i think those are very different. very. no one sits with a child and says this is a boy because.. they simply learn by being in society (schools, stores, etc). To explain to a five year old why a grown man wants to become a woman is much different. They are most likely not acustomed to those kinds of things

 

[Maya3]

[quote|I believe, being raise with catholic beliefs, that God makes no mistakes. Everyone has a cross to bear. The same way that being gay is okay as long as you dont act on it, wanting to be the opposite sex is fine but destroying the body which is a gift from God is not. In my opinion[/quote]

I responded to this were you said that if you are gay you destroy your body.

 

[Penumbra]

I know the actions are wrong.

Certainly doesn't seem wrong to me.

I try to live by "hate the sin, not the sinner". But its not the churchs position to judge people. so do you think they are accepted in as they should be?

Absolutely I think they should be accepted.

I believe, being raise with catholic beliefs, that God makes no mistakes. Everyone has a cross to bear. The same way that being gay is okay as long as you dont act on it, wanting to be the opposite sex is fine but destroying the body which is a gift from God is not. In my opinion

okay i meant like 18-20. to me thats still a child

Do you believe that conjoined twins or other birth defects should not be corrected based on a religious assumption that your deity does not make mistakes?

Immediate gratification though? couldnt "she have tried counseling or something first?

To receive official hormone therapy and especially surgery, transgender people in developed countries have to see a therapist. It's delayed gratification rather than immediate gratification because the overall process takes years.

The purpose of therapy is to make sure that the individual has gender identity disorder rather than a more temporary fixation. If the diagnosis is gender identify disorder (which is generally permanent and lifelong), then typically transition is what is recommended, though it does depend on the individual and their preferences. The extent that their gender identity impacts their ability to be happy is the main variable in whether they transition or not. Transgendered individuals that have not transitioned have suicide rates that are around 25 times higher than the general population, which is why the college I worked for took the issue so seriously and made sure there were resources in place for them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You misunderstand. she says there was a mistake. not me

The only mistake I see is to continue a life that on most days has me trying to sleep for 10 to 12 and wishing I could have just died during one of the few close calls I've had.

Immediate gratification though? couldnt "she have tried counseling or something first?

Here is time line of what I am looking at for "instant gratification." I have just started seeing a therapist. It will be a few months before I can start on hormones. Then over the next couple of years I play the waiting game as I endure what will amount to about 200 hours of electrolysis to remove my beard and as the hormones slowly feminize my body. Then I will have to do what is called the real life experience, where for a full year minimum I have to live, full time, as a woman before I can be considered for genital surgery. But that is just for the physical aspects. When you take into the time to it takes to socially, mentally, and physically adjust to the new sex, ten years is about what it takes.

Okayy i think those are very different. very. no one sits with a child and says this is a boy because.. they simply learn by being in society (schools, stores, etc). To explain to a five year old why a grown man wants to become a woman is much different. They are most likely not acustomed to those kinds of things

You would truly be marveled at the mental capacities of young children. Sure they may not understand a doctoral thesis statement, but to a child things are so simple that many things adults find difficult to understand a child will grasp with the greatest of ease. Actually a very easy explanation for a child, that can satisfy until the inevitable endless barage of why's, how's, who's, what's, and when's, is that some people are born with the body of a boy, but they were also born with the brain of a girl, so they change the way the look so they can also have the body of a woman. Now from there you can give a child a range of scientific explanations for the whys, and often times they will at least pretend to listen and understand even if they don't, but that's all there is to it. After that the child probably really wont even care or even really notice it because they have their answers to that subject and a billion more questions about a million more subjects. Children are sponges of knowledge, and a caretaker should do all they can to give them all they can in those crucial years, not work to prevent the massive intake of knowledge.

 

[Rhynni]

If you had a spouse. and children. would you pick up and move to another city and stop speaking with them. to change your entire identity

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you had a spouse. and children. would you pick up and move to another city and stop speaking with them. to change your entire identity

If I had a spouse, then that would be something I would have to consider with that person. There would be many factors to consider, so it's difficult to say. Although I can say one of the reasons me and my ex recently broke up was partly because of my plans on transitioning (she has nothing against it, but she doesn't handle change very well and she does not consider herself lesbian), and partly because of my academic and career plans which can potentially have me moving around alot and being away from home for lengthy periods of time (there are some other minor reasons, but none that are relative to the discussion). And because of those reasons I really do not plan on dating or looking for any long term relationships for some time, possibly for many years until after my transition has been underway for some time so I'm not having to find someone while I'm just beginning to change, and so that I can maybe find someone who is ok with being with someone who can be gone from home for weeks, months, or even more than a year at a time in addition to a very busy life-style when at home.
In a nutshell, my life could be pretty easy and I could expect a fairly good amount of respect from superiors, peers, and subordinates alike and well as being well off financially. But because living as and being male are things that would have me rather wasting away counting down the days until I die and really unable to enjoy the fruits of my endeavors anyways, I am taking a path that will make things much more harder in my career, will have me turned down for many jobs and positions I would have otherwise have gotten, and will put me at odds with many people just so I can live with myself. Actually before I accepted myself I was on a path of destruction, and one that most likely would have had me in and out of jail for various crimes because I just did not care. I was also becoming an alcoholic, and lived not giving a damn about the consequences (I can say I done some incredibly stupid and extremely dangerous things back then, just because then I didn't care if driving 130 MPH down the highway caused me to be in a horrific wreck).
But once I accepted myself, there finally seemed to be that light at the end of the tunnel and making long term plans for my future became something I was able to actually grasp clearly for the first time, and I started going back to school and went from failing to almost all A's. My GPA went from 1.222 when I started again, to currently being at 3.528 and it will be a little higher when I graduate with an Associates of Science at the end of this semester. I also went from not having made any sort of honor roll since the first grade, to being on the Dean's List every semester and even am eligible to join the honor society at my school.

 

[Pastadamus]

Thoughts on transgenders. Do you know any? If so, we're they generally accepted, rejected, or anywhere in between? Any ideas positive or negative welcome.

I know a few trans people I've met. Personally I don't have any problem with how people want to identify as. Gender, as we now know, is 90% social and 10% genetic so as a person who belives in science and not superstition I don't go around criticizing others.