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Translation of Bible opening sentence incorrect

twinmama

Member
Thoughts?

Trouw reports the “Opening sentence of the bible is incorrect” and a “New interpretation of original Hebrew Genesis text negates God as the creator”.

According to Professor Ellen van Wolde, God did not create heaven and earth. Instead he separated them.

Professor Van Wolde, an Old Testament scholar and member of the Royal Academy of Sciences, said the standard interpretation of the opening sentence of the bible is no longer acceptable: “The traditional image of God the Creator is untenable. God did not create.”

The professor, who will present her thesis at the Radboud University in Nijmegen on Friday, re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole and of other creation stories from Mesapotamia. She eventually concluded the Hebrew verb bara does not mean to create but to spatially separate.
The Radboud University said the new interpretation is ‘No less than a disruption of the story of the creation as we know it’.

Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.

http://www.expatica.com
 

Smoke

Done here.
Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.
That seems to indicate that she doesn't actually know any of them.
 

SHANMAC

Member
What a fantastic way to make a name for one's self. Come up with a new meaning to one of the most important verses of the bible and you're sure to create a whirlwind of publicity....and sell a boatload of books too!
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Thoughts?

Trouw reports the “Opening sentence of the bible is incorrect” and a “New interpretation of original Hebrew Genesis text negates God as the creator”.

According to Professor Ellen van Wolde, God did not create heaven and earth. Instead he separated them.

Professor Van Wolde, an Old Testament scholar and member of the Royal Academy of Sciences, said the standard interpretation of the opening sentence of the bible is no longer acceptable: “The traditional image of God the Creator is untenable. God did not create.”

The professor, who will present her thesis at the Radboud University in Nijmegen on Friday, re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole and of other creation stories from Mesapotamia. She eventually concluded the Hebrew verb bara does not mean to create but to spatially separate.
The Radboud University said the new interpretation is ‘No less than a disruption of the story of the creation as we know it’.

Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.

http://www.expatica.com
Looks like old news repackaged by a rank opportunist.
 

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
Prof Van Wolde added:
The traditional view of God the Creator is untenable now.





Oh well, too bad, so sad.
 

mippop

New Member
Thoughts?

Trouw reports the “Opening sentence of the bible is incorrect” and a “New interpretation of original Hebrew Genesis text negates God as the creator”.

According to Professor Ellen van Wolde, God did not create heaven and earth. Instead he separated them.

Professor Van Wolde, an Old Testament scholar and member of the Royal Academy of Sciences, said the standard interpretation of the opening sentence of the bible is no longer acceptable: “The traditional image of God the Creator is untenable. God did not create.”

The professor, who will present her thesis at the Radboud University in Nijmegen on Friday, re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole and of other creation stories from Mesapotamia. She eventually concluded the Hebrew verb bara does not mean to create but to spatially separate.
The Radboud University said the new interpretation is ‘No less than a disruption of the story of the creation as we know it’.

Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.

If anyone takes this article seriously, you shouldn't. It's not even a worthy piece of scholarship. I easily found clear and unequivocal contradictions in van Wolde's claims that are just plain wrong. Here are some examples.

The article quotes van Wolde as saying
“God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects. Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?”

Yet, looking through just Gen. 1, I found the following verses using forms of the same Hebrew verb "create" followed by two or more objects.

Gen. 1:21. And God created the great crocodiles, and every kind of creature that live in the waters, and every kind of winged birds, and God saw that it was good.

Gen. 1:27. So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female He created them.

Furthermore, the meaning of "bara" as "He Created" rather than "He Separated" is reenforced by the following verses.

Gen. 2:3. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen. 2:4. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

I might have been able to support van Wolde's suggestion of using "separated" rather than "created" in Gen. 1:27 because chapter 2 tells us that Eve came from Adam. However, van Wolde shoots herself in the foot by stating:

“It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but not the Earth itself.”

If the Gen. 1:1 meant to say "separated" rather than "created", then why wasn't the same verb, "mavdel", that was used in Gen. 1:6-7 also used in Gen. 1:1?

Gen. 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen. 1:7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

Furthermore, van Wolde, claims that her findings are based on putting the Hebrew Bible in context with other scriptures from other cultures of the era. This is absurd. It's akin to describing men in the context of women by claiming the result has one breast and one testicle.
 
Got created a temple between the earth and the sky.
I don't see a big problem here.
Better understanding the Bible is not a bad thing.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Thoughts?

Trouw reports the “Opening sentence of the bible is incorrect” and a “New interpretation of original Hebrew Genesis text negates God as the creator”.

According to Professor Ellen van Wolde, God did not create heaven and earth. Instead he separated them.

Professor Van Wolde, an Old Testament scholar and member of the Royal Academy of Sciences, said the standard interpretation of the opening sentence of the bible is no longer acceptable: “The traditional image of God the Creator is untenable. God did not create.”

The professor, who will present her thesis at the Radboud University in Nijmegen on Friday, re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole and of other creation stories from Mesapotamia. She eventually concluded the Hebrew verb bara does not mean to create but to spatially separate.
The Radboud University said the new interpretation is ‘No less than a disruption of the story of the creation as we know it’.

Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.

[URL="http://www.expatica.com"]http://www.expatica.com[/URL]
And I though you were going to post about the plural use of heaven that permeates most translations in 1:1.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Thoughts?

Trouw reports the “Opening sentence of the bible is incorrect” and a “New interpretation of original Hebrew Genesis text negates God as the creator”.

According to Professor Ellen van Wolde, God did not create heaven and earth. Instead he separated them.

Professor Van Wolde, an Old Testament scholar and member of the Royal Academy of Sciences, said the standard interpretation of the opening sentence of the bible is no longer acceptable: “The traditional image of God the Creator is untenable. God did not create.”

The professor, who will present her thesis at the Radboud University in Nijmegen on Friday, re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole and of other creation stories from Mesapotamia. She eventually concluded the Hebrew verb bara does not mean to create but to spatially separate.
The Radboud University said the new interpretation is ‘No less than a disruption of the story of the creation as we know it’.

Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.

[URL="http://www.expatica.com"]http://www.expatica.com[/URL]

I posted about this, and got laughed at.....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/abrahamic-religions/87312-academic-nonsense-science-torah.html
 

Pure-Truth

Member
Heres an even greater problem with the Bible
Chapter 1


1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
If we consider the fact that for a face of the waters to be possible, that body of water would have to have been exposed to a considerable length of time by sunlight and or any energy or mass inferred to be with Electromagnetic waves which is basically "Light", but in verse 3 it is made clear the sun and or light somehow did not exist up to that point via thermal transfer, so up to this point what is claimed simply is not possible..

Which BTW has all the previous statements made contradicting almost all physics pertaining to mass if we are to consider actual physical laws that dictate what is possible and what is not possible..

This not only points out the bible and or implied creator is flawed, but just by the very nature of all mass, what is being stated by implied biblical creator points to an entity that doesn't understand its created Physics.. Which BTW doesn't conform to the claim of an all knowing entity, as had it known the physical laws it would have had to adhere to facts rather then to resort to fiction and or statements that are as contradictory as they are presented - which mind you is claimed to have been written for ALL mankind to read and agree with, including those of us who clearly understand physics as it is presented today and in the future..

which BTW if we over look all the fiction thus far provided should have any surprises revealed to said all knowing entity null and void, because a perfect all knowing entity should have known all that - "has, is, and will transpire", and yet, there are many suggestions - far to many in fact to refer to, that point out events simply have not adhered to what should have been known to transpire as per as it is suggested by the very statement or inference about said entity being an all knowing entity..

Are you all with me on this? Or was that last statement WAY way beyond anyone else's reasoning? ANYBODY?

I guess I will only know if anyone is willing to point out exactly where they stand with respects to my reasoning which insists on facts, but I warn you it may not be beneficial to ones credibility if you are keen to support what I consider fiction by adding unhealthy dollops of more fiction in support of the Bible..

Cheers,

Pete..
 
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TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I could cause damage to religious groups if I decided to change the meanings of words to mean something else. In fact, you could do that with anything.
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Thoughts?

Trouw reports the “Opening sentence of the bible is incorrect” and a “New interpretation of original Hebrew Genesis text negates God as the creator”.

According to Professor Ellen van Wolde, God did not create heaven and earth. Instead he separated them.

Professor Van Wolde, an Old Testament scholar and member of the Royal Academy of Sciences, said the standard interpretation of the opening sentence of the bible is no longer acceptable: “The traditional image of God the Creator is untenable. God did not create.”

The professor, who will present her thesis at the Radboud University in Nijmegen on Friday, re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole and of other creation stories from Mesapotamia. She eventually concluded the Hebrew verb bara does not mean to create but to spatially separate.
The Radboud University said the new interpretation is ‘No less than a disruption of the story of the creation as we know it’.

Professor Van Wolde said she understood her findings, which are soon to be published in a leading scientific magazine, will be devastating to traditional believers.

[URL]http://www.expatica.com[/URL]

She would be correct. The Logos which is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body and animates all therein including you and I, was, in the infinitrly dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, which was torn asunder or spatially separated by that animating force for the foundation of this universe.

From the remains of the previous universal body which had rolled up as a scroll and the universal elements were excited to the point that they had burnt up and fell as massive columns of fire beyond all measure in height and depth into the great abyss or Black Hole from which it originated, where that universal body of which this one is the resurrection in the eternal evolution of the cosmos, was crushed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin.

Origen, who was well versed in the writings of Enoch, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day’ that is a period of universal activity, which is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. We are evolving in an eternal oscillating universe which is in the eternal process of evolution itself.
 
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Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
I hope I have made a valid point, but to be sure - May I hear from the Original Poster please?

Cheers,

Pete..

dude who cares if the bible is fictious or not...

the thread is about translation of the bible...

two different matters

as has been hinted

...

I could discuss chocolate cookies and chocolate during sex

by your logic as both are discussing chocolate....I would be discussing the same thing:sarcastic

....

The simple fact that the bible has been poorly translated...for years and years and years,,,,,...

is not news, but it is to christians, who many insist any such ideas is false
luckily not all christians are uniformed though
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
Heres an even greater problem with the Bible

If we consider the fact that for a face of the waters to be possible, that body of water would have to have been exposed to a considerable length of time by sunlight and or any energy or mass inferred to be with Electromagnetic waves which is basically "Light", but in verse 3 it is made clear the sun and or light somehow did not exist up to that point via thermal transfer, so up to this point what is claimed simply is not possible..

Which BTW has all the previous statements made contradicting almost all physics pertaining to mass if we are to consider actual physical laws that dictate what is possible and what is not possible..

This not only points out the bible and or implied creator is flawed, but just by the very nature of all mass, what is being stated by implied biblical creator points to an entity that doesn't understand its created Physics.. Which BTW doesn't conform to the claim of an all knowing entity, as had it known the physical laws it would have had to adhere to facts rather then to resort to fiction and or statements that are as contradictory as they are presented - which mind you is claimed to have been written for ALL mankind to read and agree with, including those of us who clearly understand physics as it is presented today and in the future..

which BTW if we over look all the fiction thus far provided should have any surprises revealed to said all knowing entity null and void, because a perfect all knowing entity should have known all that - "has, is, and will transpire", and yet, there are many suggestions - far to many in fact to refer to, that point out events simply have not adhered to what should have been known to transpire as per as it is suggested by the very statement or inference about said entity being an all knowing entity..

Are you all with me on this? Or was that last statement WAY way beyond anyone else's reasoning? ANYBODY?

I guess I will only know if anyone is willing to point out exactly where they stand with respects to my reasoning which insists on facts, but I warn you it may not be beneficial to ones credibility if you are keen to support what I consider fiction by adding unhealthy dollops of more fiction in support of the Bible..

Cheers,

Pete..

Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day’ that is a period of universal activity, which is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. We are evolving in an eternal oscillating universe which is in the eternal process of evolution itself.

To begin with, the first day or period of manifestation of the seven universal cycles that revolve eternally within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle, consisted of the massive first generation star only, there were no planets or physical bodies behind which those massive stars could hide, thereby creating a shadow that an observer would call night. The first generation of this, the seventh cycle of universal activity consisted of light and Light only. For the Observer said Let there be light: and there was light, then came the evening or period of seemingly non-being that precedes the next day or cycle of universal activity.

"The earth was without form/shape and void/having zero mass.” A Photon or wave particle, which is the quantum of electromagnetic energy, is not a particle in the true sense, having zero mass, no electric charge, and carrying angular and linear momentum but is generally regarded as a discrete stable elementary particle.

The Logos, is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body and all therein including you and I. It is the activating or life force, and the Logos was in the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, and it was the momentum of the universal animating principle that was the cause of the Big Bang which tore asunder or spatially separated the singularity which has evolved to become mankind who is currently the Most high in the evolution, Lord of creatures and the prototype of the Lord of spirits who is the Son of Man or the evolving spirit of the eternal who becomes the next in line in the eternal growth/evolution of the singularity of origin who continues to evolves from within the body of the most high in the creation, which is mankind "the virgin bride of God," whose son inherits the throne of his father the most high, whose Son is the Son Of Man: the Omega who the Alpha becomes or has become, depending on your concept of time.

At the moment of the spatial separation there was nothing, except for the expanding liquid like electromagnetic energy in the billions of degrees that followed the Big Bang.
When the spatial separation was completed and only the quantum of electromagnetic energy remained, it was upon the face of this universal cloud of wave particles within the bottomless pit or expanding deep space, that the Logos was moving and gathering those wave particles into subatomic particles, which were then gathered in the formation of atoms, which in turn were gathered together in the formation of the molecules, etc. This gathering process continues and is the evolutionary force that is creating this universal body or galactic cluster, which is being gathered back to its origin, from which the great gatherer, through the power of the Logos, will create a new heavens and a new earth.

Most Biblical translations of Genesis 1: 2; read, "The earth was without form/shape and void/having zero mass.” This verse would be better translated as, “The earth became without form and void.” As the Hebrew word ‘Hayah,’ translated “Was,” means “to become, occur, come to pass, be.” The earth of the sixth generation of the universe which was gathered back to the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin in the beginning, had become formless and void. (Not some new beginning, but “THE BEGINNING,” before space and time were created.)
 
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Pure-Truth

Member
I'm Back!

As I simply cant let the following to continue..
Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.
Problem with that interpretation is the fact that the Inference to "The Universe" is meant to refer to all That - was, is and going to be possible.
The inference to "Universe after universe" does not refer to a definition defined as "The Universe" and whats more violates the definition and therefore is Null And Void, as is any further references made to it there after such as the following statements after my comment

Hows that Guys?:beach: Am I within the protocol? or are we off topic?
If we indeed are, then may I be so bold and suggest the threads title and or heading be changed to better reflect the OP's reason for posting, of course it would help if the OP could have some say, am I right?:run:
The nights and days of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day’ that is a period of universal activity, which is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. We are evolving in an eternal oscillating universe which is in the eternal process of evolution itself.

To begin with, the first day or period of manifestation of the seven universal cycles that revolve eternally within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle, consisted of the massive first generation star only, there were no planets or physical bodies behind which those massive stars could hide, thereby creating a shadow that an observer would call night. The first generation of this, the seventh cycle of universal activity consisted of light and Light only. For the Observer said Let there be light: and there was light, then came the evening or period of seemingly non-being that precedes the next day or cycle of universal activity.

"The earth was without form/shape and void/having zero mass.” A Photon or wave particle, which is the quantum of electromagnetic energy, is not a particle in the true sense, having zero mass, no electric charge, and carrying angular and linear momentum but is generally regarded as a discrete stable elementary particle.

The Logos, is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body and all therein including you and I. It is the activating or life force, and the Logos was in the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin,
"Infinitesimally small"? I ask - to what reference?
and it was the momentum of the universal animating principle that was the cause of the Big Bang which tore asunder or spatially separated the singularity
So if we refer to the Universe one moment in reference to all of its energy and or mass B4 implied singularity inference, and then to the reference implying change to something else, what references prey tell have changed and from what catalyst? but more to the point is the problem of the destruction or creation of energy for such a change..


What I am getting at is if the inference to the Universe is to entail all that is possible, then what we refer to is a closed system that does not allow for the IMPOSSIBLE to enter in our implied definitions inference, unless of course one concedes fiction is indeed fact.. "The Universe" therefore first and foremost is our reference to all that is possible, and if we are to describe change to such an inference, then it needs to adhere to strict truth statements.

For example if the Universe were to be ,it would only ever be 100% of it - if it is indeed all of it, so if its single inference and or dimension is inadequate in describing observed changes, we need more inferences and or references as in "Dimensions"..

The most basic statement that implies to change therefore needs the minimum of four dimensions to express a restrictive change.
for example.. with respects to two portions, two Potentials, two subsystems and or dimensions..
If we have half of the Universe then what we have is the inference to two halves and or two subsystems you being implied as one half.. so that if one half - is to change the other half which in this case is you needs to accommodate and also change if indeed the two are to adhere to the Universe remaining as the Universe..

So to recap, if our two subsystems are to imply change, the only way this is possible is if each portion and or reference reciprocates the other, as each inference is the reciprocal to the rest of the Universe, yes that's right, ones actions effect the entire Universe as it must reciprocate less it violates its own definition pertaining to 100% of its Energy..
Put simply any mass that is deemed part of your makeup, can no longer also be deemed to be elsewhere and or part of the rest of the Universe.
which has evolved to become mankind who is currently the Most high in the evolution, Lord of creatures and the prototype of the Lord of spirits who is the Son of Man or the evolving spirit of the eternal who becomes the next in line in the eternal growth/evolution of the singularity of origin who continues to evolves from within the body of the most high in the creation, which is mankind "the virgin bride of God," whose son inherits the throne of his father the most high, whose Son is the Son Of Man: the Omega who the Alpha becomes or has become, depending on your concept of time.
Comment removed less comment is used to decieve the gullible
At the moment of the spatial separation there was nothing, except for the expanding liquid like electromagnetic energy in the billions of degrees that followed the Big Bang.
When the spatial separation was completed and only the quantum of electromagnetic energy remained,
which violates physical laws that define what is possible and what is not, so the inference is not valid
it was upon the face of this universal cloud of wave particles within the bottomless pit or expanding deep space, that the Logos was moving and gathering those wave particles into subatomic particles, which were then gathered in the formation of atoms, which in turn were gathered together in the formation of the molecules, etc. This gathering process continues and is the evolutionary force that is creating this universal body or galactic cluster, which is being gathered back to its origin, from which the great gatherer, through the power of the Logos, will create a new heavens and a new earth.
Comment removed less comment is used to decieve the gullible
Most Biblical translations of Genesis 1: 2; read, "The earth was without form/shape and void/having zero mass.”
Which is a violation to the universe, as the inference to the Universe implies it is closed to the Impossible and zero Mass is an inference to the entire Universes only reciprocal, which has nothing and or zero excluded from it..

Granted at this point in time, this may not be easily understood unless one may be a professor who has been deeply involved with what I have just referred to, so feel free to challenge and or ask more questions about that
This verse would be better translated as, “The earth became without form and void.” As the Hebrew word ‘Hayah,’ translated “Was,” means “to become, occur, come to pass, be.” The earth of the sixth generation of the universe which was gathered back to the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin in the beginning, had become formless and void. (Not some new beginning, but “THE BEGINNING,” before space and time were created.)
The Inference to some beginning to "The Universe" is in violation to the definition "The Universe" it also violates physical conservation laws, mainly in reference to Mass and or Energy, where in physics, it implies Energy can not be created, nor can it be destroyed ..

I feel I need to further point out -
As much as it seems The Big-Bang Theory is a valid Theory, it is in fact not fully accepted to be a theory being 100% correct and or as yet considered a fact, mainly due to much of the problematic Data that suggests it violates physical laws, and in particular conservation laws pertaining to Energy and or Mass, so I would steer clear from any reference to it if one is endeavoring to deceive the gullible.
There are other problems, but I have removed them, in case the facts that I reveal - are taken in and considered as good points to consider in order to deceive and or further deceive the gullible. mwha~hey!
 

S-word

Well-Known Member
I'm Back!

As I simply cant let the following to continue..
Problem with that interpretation is the fact that the Inference to "The Universe" is meant to refer to all That - was, is and going to be possible.
The inference to "Universe after universe" does not refer to a definition defined as "The Universe" and whats more violates the definition and therefore is Null And Void, as is any further references made to it there after such as the following statements after my comment

Hows that Guys?:beach: Am I within the protocol? or are we off topic?
If we indeed are, then may I be so bold and suggest the threads title and or heading be changed to better reflect the OP's reason for posting, of course it would help if the OP could have some say, am I right?:run:
"Infinitesimally small"? I ask - to what reference?So if we refer to the Universe one moment in reference to all of its energy and or mass B4 implied singularity inference, and then to the reference implying change to something else, what references prey tell have changed and from what catalyst? but more to the point is the problem of the destruction or creation of energy for such a change..

What I am getting at is if the inference to the Universe is to entail all that is possible, then what we refer to is a closed system that does not allow for the IMPOSSIBLE to enter in our implied definitions inference, unless of course one concedes fiction is indeed fact.. "The Universe" therefore first and foremost is our reference to all that is possible, and if we are to describe change to such an inference, then it needs to adhere to strict truth statements.

For example if the Universe were to be ,it would only ever be 100% of it - if it is indeed all of it, so if its single inference and or dimension is inadequate in describing observed changes, we need more inferences and or references as in "Dimensions"..

The most basic statement that implies to change therefore needs the minimum of four dimensions to express a restrictive change.
for example.. with respects to two portions, two Potentials, two subsystems and or dimensions..
If we have half of the Universe then what we have is the inference to two halves and or two subsystems you being implied as one half.. so that if one half - is to change the other half which in this case is you needs to accommodate and also change if indeed the two are to adhere to the Universe remaining as the Universe..

So to recap, if our two subsystems are to imply change, the only way this is possible is if each portion and or reference reciprocates the other, as each inference is the reciprocal to the rest of the Universe, yes that's right, ones actions effect the entire Universe as it must reciprocate less it violates its own definition pertaining to 100% of its Energy..
Put simply any mass that is deemed part of your makeup, can no longer also be deemed to be elsewhere and or part of the rest of the Universe.
Comment removed less comment is used to decieve the gulliblewhich violates physical laws that define what is possible and what is not, so the inference is not validComment removed less comment is used to decieve the gullibleWhich is a violation to the universe, as the inference to the Universe implies it is closed to the Impossible and zero Mass is an inference to the entire Universes only reciprocal, which has nothing and or zero excluded from it..

Granted at this point in time, this may not be easily understood unless one may be a professor who has been deeply involved with what I have just referred to, so feel free to challenge and or ask more questions about thatThe Inference to some beginning to "The Universe" is in violation to the definition "The Universe" it also violates physical conservation laws, mainly in reference to Mass and or Energy, where in physics, it implies Energy can not be created, nor can it be destroyed ..

I feel I need to further point out -
As much as it seems The Big-Bang Theory is a valid Theory, it is in fact not fully accepted to be a theory being 100% correct and or as yet considered a fact, mainly due to much of the problematic Data that suggests it violates physical laws, and in particular conservation laws pertaining to Energy and or Mass, so I would steer clear from any reference to it if one is endeavoring to deceive the gullible.
There are other problems, but I have removed them, in case the facts that I reveal - are taken in and considered as good points to consider in order to deceive and or further deceive the gullible. mwha~hey!

Matey, my words are for the average religeous seekers who have not had the education that you appear to have had, and would not have a clue in hell as to what you have said. All that was, all that is and all that will be, was contained within the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity which was spatially separated or torn asunder for the foundations of this universe as it is now and as it will be in the future.

If you do not believe that the singularity from which all that was, all that is and all that will be has evolved and continues to evolve, was once infinitely small, then you tell your listeners, how big you believe that singularity of our origin was, and while your at it, if you don't like the name "Logos," as the momentum force that instigated the spatial separation of the singularity, then you explain what caused the Big Bang.

Have fun with the few in this RELIGIOUS Forum who can understand what you are talking about, mate; we all must find our own pathway to the truth of the spatial
separation that was caused by the force that created the Big Bang.
 
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Pure-Truth

Member
Matey, my words are for the average religious seekers who have not had the education that you appear to have had, and would not have a clue in hell as to what you have said. All that was, all that is and all that will be, was contained within the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity which was spatially separated or torn asunder for the foundations of this universe as it is now and as it will be in the future.

If you do not believe that the singularity from which all that was, all that is and all that will be evolved/continues to evolve, was infinitely small, then you tell your listeners, how big you believe that singularity of our origin was, and while your at it, if you don't like the name "Logos," as the momentum force that instigated the spatial separation of the singularity, then you explain what caused the Big Bang.
Me? :shrug: but I thought I made it clear, that the Big-Bang Theory violates conservation laws, and therefore deemed to be problematic, hence is not a reference one should refer to if one wishes to refer to facts..
Have fun with the few who can understand what you are talking about, mate; we all must find our own pathway to the truth of the spatial separation that was caused by the force that created the Big Bang.
Who are you addressing here? Me or to those who do subscribe to the flawed theory of a Big Bang?
 
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