Trigger: Pedophilia the Orientation?

[Estro Felino]

, but I don't think one should rule out that they do have love towards any abuser. It's often that they feel such perhaps as to why they might not betray them or expose them.

Platonic Love?
I do not think prepubescentes can feel sexual attraction towards adults.
I recall that when I was 11 I still used to believe that children were made through deep kissing.
You know watching telenovelas...
I had no idea of what sex was.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Platonic Love?
I do not think prepubescentes can feel sexual attraction towards adults.
I recall that when I was 11 I still used to believe that children were made through deep kissing.
You know watching telenovelas...
I had no idea of what sex was.

Well as a male I haven't a clue what goes on in the minds of females, let alone young girls, and that was apparent from my earliest experiences with girls - none in my family. But I wouldn't assume that very young females did not have sexual feelings just as much as young boys have (I was ten when I discovered mine), and if such are aroused by an adult (and satisfied by them perhaps) then this might account for such bonds. Don't assume that all paedophiles will be aggressive and dominant towards children. It's a complicated area obviously such that we can't be dogmatic as to what occurs in adult/child relationships, even though most of us will agree that they should be illegal, are usually harmful, and that the damage being done will usually not be apparent to the child or even possibly the adult.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Paedophiles are not automatically child molesters and child molesters are not always paedophiles. Paedophiles love children, by definition. It is just the attraction. Acting on the attraction is a whole other thing.

The first part true the second part no. Do you love everyone you're attracted to?

I'm sure you look, smile, and move on.

Attraction is automatic sexual physiological and psychological response to people we like. Unless someone has poor self control, age, sex, looks, etc doesn't do anything in itself.

Love is gradual. How do the two connect?

 

[VoidCat]

I agree. But there may be alternatives to abusing children these days. Isn't that a good thing?

One of the obvious wrongs with pedophilia is child porn involving actual children. Since many pedophiles only go so far as to indulge themselves in kiddie porn there are high tech alternatives. I have recently found out how easy "Deepfakes" are easy to make. A girl that I like sent me a short music video clip to me. Instead of the clip being of the singer it was her. And it was amazingly natural looking. Amateurs can now place their face, or the face of anyone that they want on another actor. Instead of abusing kids fakes can now be made with adult actors. Though I would not want my ugly mug attached to some porn floating out there in the internet, I would rather see just the faces of children used rather than actual children. If someone got off on my face it is a sacrifice that I am willing to take so children are not abused.

Is it possible to run the program that ages people up in photos backwards so it ages them down? If so could they use adults and age them down?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'll never buy the "it's an orientation" line, as that seems to be an attempt to validate it. Sexual attraction to prepubescent children is a psychological disorder, period. I've spoken to various "non-offending" pedos over the years (you find all kinds on trashy message boards) and they shared various personality traits, including arrested development.

I can see the possibility that pedophilia is an orientation
in the way that homosexuality is. But being that way
doesn't validate acting upon it with children.
It seems that people apply "acceptable" to an
orientations, but "unacceptable" to psychological
disorders. That can mislead.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I perhaps should add some comments regarding paedophilia - that the attraction to children being so normal might explain why paedophilia could be so resistant to therapy - that it almost feels like betrayal to disown some natural feelings that one has even if it is allied to a rather unnatural one - the sexual one. I have mentioned on the forum before concerning the work of Dr Sarah Goode, mentioned and whose views were given in the linked article. Her research suggested as much as 20% of adult males (or more) did have sexual feelings or thoughts concerning very young children (in the paedophilia range), so that attraction/affection might just be a loose area to designate as to what is actually happening.

I have suggested using virtual children (rather than real ones for obvious reasons) in therapy so as to shift the perception of paedophiles away from the sexual to the more normal (so retaining much of what they might feel towards children and that being which keeps them from doing any harm - the protective sense), although of course I don't know if such could work, but perhaps an avenue to explore.

And they are of course not an homogeneous group to be dealt with by one method alone. Many will fail to change in any manner, or deceive others as to such, just as terrorists often do - the more intelligent ones so often too. The main issue with my proposal perhaps is that those more inclined to change will perhaps be the more intelligent, and being so, the more inclined to fool others as to any changes.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Attraction is automatic sexual physiological and psychological response to people we like.

Perhaps we see things differently, but I wouldn't necessarily include sexual in that.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Perhaps we see things differently, but I wouldn't necessarily include sexual in that.

In regards to pedephilia, I would. I haven't heard people attracted to children want to firm a relationship with them.

Attraction goes beyond the physical but I was relating it to pedeophilea.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think this is true either, that paedophiles are just shallow and look towards the physical aspects. I think some do see their relationships more as love affairs, even if they are delusional as to what is actually going on between them.

With children?

That's the context not that they can't in general; we're all human. Of course they can. Just with children I don't feel it's like one would form a relationship the same way as if they did as adult.

But there are many people who are just physically attracted to adults but don't feel they need to form a relationship and probably a few that don't think in those terms.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think there is any confusion. Males can have much the same feelings as females in this respect even if they don't give birth to them. And your last sentence is an assumption too, given that many children do have long-term relationships with paedophiles - for whatever reasons, and love cannot be ruled out simply because we don't like to think so. Unfortunately children aren't mature like adults and might be deceived as to what they experience, but I don't think one should rule out that they do have love towards any abuser. It's often that they feel such perhaps as to why they might not betray them or expose them.

What age group?

I've heard of teens may have relationships with older adults but not children and vis versa.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Interesting abstract (PDF) The Stigma of Pedophilia: Clinical and Forensic Implications

There is an emerging consensus among researchers that having pedophilic interests is not synonymous with child sexual abuse or other amoral behavior. Nevertheless, misconceptions about pedophilia are highly prevalent among the general public and mental health practitioners. This article provides an overview of recent findings on the stigma of pedophilia and derives guidelines for mental health practitioners based on these results. We argue that stigmatization of people with pedophilic sexual interests has undesired indirect effects on risk factors for child sexual abuse, particularly on an emotional and social level. Also, fear of being rejected or treated unethically may prevent pedophilic individuals at risk for sexual offending from confiding in medical practitioners or psychotherapists. Psychologists working with pedophilic individuals in forensic or clinical settings should be aware that stigmatizing people with pedophilia may increase their risk of sexual offending, and provide help to deal with potential stigma-related repercussions.

 

[Mock Turtle]

With children?

That's the context not that they can't in general; we're all human. Of course they can. Just with children I don't feel it's like one would form a relationship the same way as if they did as adult.

But there are many people who are just physically attracted to adults but don't feel they need to form a relationship and probably a few that don't think in those terms.

People are what they are. Some presumably do not see age as a factor and will accept what happens, regardless perhaps of their rational nature telling them otherwise - that love of a sexual nature is for adults and not for children - as most of us do realise. From what I have come across, many paedophiles do seem to believe in such loving relationships with children - and advocate for such.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

I was with you until this point, NewGuy. I agree that paedophilia is an orientation, inasmuch as it's not something anyone chooses. I note that most paedophiles do not molest children and, indeed, most child-molesters are not paedophies (they're primarily attracted to adults, the child being simply a convenient victim). Of course the sexual abuse of a child is no more an act of love than the rape of another adult.

What I can't get my head around is how anyone, minor-attracted or not, can come to believe that it's OK to molest a child. Isn't it the most reviled form of offending known to mankind? Aren't we constantly hearing accounts from victims/survivors about how it wrecks lives? No one can claim to be unaware of these things. Child molestation is psychopathic behaviour, pure and simple, isn't it?

Why would an adult sexually abuse a child?

I still go back to that clergyman who viewed his 7 year old victim as "consensual" in the encounters. If one would perceive a child so young as able to give consent, wouldn't that reflect a deeply flawed belief about what consent is and is not? Would that not reflect flawed beliefs about the psychology of children?

My questions are rhetorical as I believe the answer is "yes".

 

[Mock Turtle]

What age group?

I've heard of teens may have relationships with older adults but not children and vis versa.

We are discussing paedophilia, so prepubescent.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In regards to pedephilia, I would. I haven't heard people attracted to children want to firm a relationship with them.

Attraction goes beyond the physical but I was relating it to pedeophilea.

Well it seemed to me to apply to all people - as when one is attracted to them - when such (the sexual bit) is obviously not the case.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

People are what they are. Some presumably do not see age as a factor and will accept what happens, regardless perhaps of their rational nature telling them otherwise - that love of a sexual nature is for adults and not for children - as most of us do realise. From what I have come across, many paedophiles do seem to believe in such loving relationships with children - and advocate for such.

What age group, though?

I'd say a child 5 or 6 would be different than 16 or 17 if going by what you're saying, no?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We are discussing paedophilia, so prepubescent.

I was making the distinction that I can see adults having relationship with 14 or 15 (guess it depends on culture too) though not legal but not 5 or 6.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well it seemed to me to apply to all people - as when one is attracted to them - when such (the sexual bit) is obviously not the case.

I think it highly depends on the age of the child in what you're saying. Bit I'd find it odd for a 70 year old to love a 14 year old in a manner husband's or wives would love each other boneless younger than that.

 

[Mock Turtle]

In regards to pedephilia, I would. I haven't heard people attracted to children want to firm a relationship with them.

Attraction goes beyond the physical but I was relating it to pedeophilea.

'People we like' is perhaps where we diverged. I know many I like where sexuality isn't an issue.

 

[Mock Turtle]

What age group, though?

I'd say a child 5 or 6 would be different than 16 or 17 if going by what you're saying, no?

Maybe different but still sexual, even as to physicality.