Because Obama is the Commander In Chief of the entire military.
I'd blame Bush, but he's just last week's haggis.
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Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert
- Thread starter tumbleweed41
- Start date
Because Obama is the Commander In Chief of the entire military.
I'd blame Bush, but he's just last week's haggis.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
According to an atheist website, the religious demographics of the US Military are as follows:
70% of active duty personnel profess to be Christians.
6% profess to be of other religious faiths
23% profess to be either atheist, agnostic or some other variant of "non-religious"
1% are of unknown religious affiliation
Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers
From that website:
MAAF has previous reports, including a 2002 Air Force study, and a 2004 study that included religious data. However, there were no truly comprehensive studies available, nor did they include studies of chaplain support.
In other words, by their own admission (borne out by my own attempts to research this, I might add) - these exact demographics are pretty hard to come by.
There are many religious ministries which focus on outreach within the US military. Having spent the majority of my life affiliated with and in very close contact with US military personnel, I can attest to the fact that the majority are Christians, and that even among non Christians, religious faiths are quite evident.
Faith takes on more importance when your own mortality is staring at you down the barrel of very large weapon. It often becomes much more important to families and communities dealing with the unique challenges and stresses of deployments, war, and separation.
Like they say "There are no atheists in the fox hole." I know that's an exxageration, but often when faced with imminent death, faith takes on a new importance to military personnel and their families.
For many soldiers and their families, VOLUNTARY activities and support groups that are faith based are an integral part of their lives and their emotional well being.
That being said, of COURSE no military personnel should be FORCED to attend any sort of religious activity. Nor should military personnel be forced to hide their faith, or lack thereof.
70% of active duty personnel profess to be Christians.
6% profess to be of other religious faiths
23% profess to be either atheist, agnostic or some other variant of "non-religious"
1% are of unknown religious affiliation
Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers
From that website:
MAAF has previous reports, including a 2002 Air Force study, and a 2004 study that included religious data. However, there were no truly comprehensive studies available, nor did they include studies of chaplain support.
In other words, by their own admission (borne out by my own attempts to research this, I might add) - these exact demographics are pretty hard to come by.
There are many religious ministries which focus on outreach within the US military. Having spent the majority of my life affiliated with and in very close contact with US military personnel, I can attest to the fact that the majority are Christians, and that even among non Christians, religious faiths are quite evident.
Faith takes on more importance when your own mortality is staring at you down the barrel of very large weapon. It often becomes much more important to families and communities dealing with the unique challenges and stresses of deployments, war, and separation.
Like they say "There are no atheists in the fox hole." I know that's an exxageration, but often when faced with imminent death, faith takes on a new importance to military personnel and their families.
For many soldiers and their families, VOLUNTARY activities and support groups that are faith based are an integral part of their lives and their emotional well being.
That being said, of COURSE no military personnel should be FORCED to attend any sort of religious activity. Nor should military personnel be forced to hide their faith, or lack thereof.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
I know Kathryn. The point being, most soldiers do not actively seek out to be a dissenter against those in charge in the military . Your request to "hear from the other 80 soldiers" ignores this.
Ask your husband if fifty disgruntled soldiers equals fifty actual voices to their commander.
The two soldiers standing up for their rights against forced prostelytization are the brave ones among those 80. And even one of those is withholding his name.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Exactly the issue at hand.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
It isn't an exageration, it's a blatent lie used to insult and discredit atheists (particularly those in the military). It has absolutly no place in inteligent debate.
It's use demonstrates that the fact Christians are such a dominant majority in the US military means it needs to do more to ensure non-believers and those of other faiths aren't put in the kind of position described in the OP. Christian shouldn't be treated as a default.
Alceste
Vagabond
You should be blaming Reagan. His administration changed the military rules for ensuring chaplains were proportionally representative of the faiths of the soldiers to lump all denominations of Protestant together in 1987. Now, where once there were Anglicans, UU, Episcopalians, etc, about three quarters of chaplains are pentacostal and evangelical fundamentalists who recognize no separation of church and state and believe that even moderate Christians are envoys of Satan.
blackout
Violet.
Oh Gee! I guess we're FINALLY in the majority! :bat:
*Wonders if military will try to force soldiers out to Black Metal concerts now*
(*thinks they might have more fun....*)
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Just to get an idea of what the Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concerts entail, here is a review from the Peninsula Warrior, Official News Publication serving Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Virginia.
Love reigns during final Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concert
By Story, photos by Lyna Tucker, Assistant Editor
Contemporary Christian music lovers immersed themselves in Gods message of hope and salvation during the SonicFlood concert July 16 at Fort Eustis Jacobs Theater.
The evenings festivities began with a ceremonial cake cutting in celebration of the 235th anniversary of the Army Chaplain Corps.
Calling all chaplains, chaplains assistants and staff to the stage front, Regimental Chaplain (Col.) Richard B. Garrison and youngest chaplains assistant Pfc. Phillip Schrauben, Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 53rd Transportation Battalion, made the first slice into the cake served at concerts end.
As the cake was wheeled away and before the house lights could dim, SonicFlood took the stage with an excited greeting to the audience from lead singer and front man Rick Heil.
We just want to start out by saying that we love, love, love our troops for putting themselves in harms way so we can live in the land of the free, Heil said.
The band then launched into the song A Heart Like Yours from their most recent album of the same name.
Guitar riffs, rapid drumbeats and a foot-tapping beat kept the crowd alive and SonicFlood saturated the audience with songs of praise and worship spanning 12 years and 10 albums from the eponymous SonicFlood to their most recent release, A Heart Like Yours.
With a rock n roll vibe, Heil and company not only caught and held concertgoers attention, they got them out of their seats and moving with the music.
Do you know who invented dance? Heil asked the audience.
After a few silly answers such as You did, he answered the crowd.
God did, he said. He invented dance and I want you to dance in the Lord.
The band then launched into Lord of the Dance a celebratory hymn of praise for God and encouragement for His people.
Everybody dance now in the Holy Spirit, sang Heil. Dance they did.
SonicFlood took the Soldiers, family members and guests on an emotional rollercoaster ride, from elation to sadness with excitement and patriotism in between.
Slowing the tempo a bit, Heil spoke of the bands pride and confidence in the nations defenders.
Gesturing to bass guitarist Branden Taulbee, Heil spoke of Taulbees brother, Sgt. Christopher Taulbee, who served with Headquarters and Headquarters Battery, 4-25 Field rtillery Regiment, in Afghanistan.
Brandens brother made it home safe from Afghanistan and we just want you all to remember that God is your shield and your protector in the storm, Heil said.
Tears fell from some faces of many as Heil requested a moment of the audiences time to say a prayer for the Soldiers and the nation.
Bless America and bring America back to you, Heil prayed and went on to ask for healing and guidance for the nations military.
God, a lot of Soldiers are at a crossroads in their lives and we want to give them the answer to peace, Heil added.
The band then launched into Psalm 91 followed by Mayday, and the lyrics of the two songs resonated with the Soldiers, family members and other members of the Eustis community.
God blessed a land thats free from sea to shining sea, Heil sang.
The band closed with a prayer and a call for anyone who wanted to know the Lord or with a need or sorrow on their heart to come forward. Dozens of Soldiers and family members flooded the stage front.
Heil then stepped down from the stage and made his way through the tight crowd, praying and touching the Soldiers moved to God.
Eyes closed, Soldiers knelt, stood and swayed with the prayer and music in benediction to God.
Following the emotional ending, the band consented to a brief interview with The Peninsula Warrior backstage.
We believe in our military and what they do everyday. We believe that theres a war to be won a spiritual and worldly one- and theyre doing it, Heil said.
The rest of the band agreed and spoke of other military installations they have performed at including Anderson Air Force Base, Guam; Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base in Fayetteville, N.C.; Fort Lee; and Mannheim, Germany.
We love to do anything to encourage them. We sing and bang on stuff for the Lord to light a fire in them, Heil said.
The concert was the final installment of the Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concert Series.
Love reigns during final Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concert
Love reigns during final Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concert
By Story, photos by Lyna Tucker, Assistant Editor
Contemporary Christian music lovers immersed themselves in Gods message of hope and salvation during the SonicFlood concert July 16 at Fort Eustis Jacobs Theater.
The evenings festivities began with a ceremonial cake cutting in celebration of the 235th anniversary of the Army Chaplain Corps.
Calling all chaplains, chaplains assistants and staff to the stage front, Regimental Chaplain (Col.) Richard B. Garrison and youngest chaplains assistant Pfc. Phillip Schrauben, Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 53rd Transportation Battalion, made the first slice into the cake served at concerts end.
As the cake was wheeled away and before the house lights could dim, SonicFlood took the stage with an excited greeting to the audience from lead singer and front man Rick Heil.
We just want to start out by saying that we love, love, love our troops for putting themselves in harms way so we can live in the land of the free, Heil said.
The band then launched into the song A Heart Like Yours from their most recent album of the same name.
Guitar riffs, rapid drumbeats and a foot-tapping beat kept the crowd alive and SonicFlood saturated the audience with songs of praise and worship spanning 12 years and 10 albums from the eponymous SonicFlood to their most recent release, A Heart Like Yours.
With a rock n roll vibe, Heil and company not only caught and held concertgoers attention, they got them out of their seats and moving with the music.
Do you know who invented dance? Heil asked the audience.
After a few silly answers such as You did, he answered the crowd.
God did, he said. He invented dance and I want you to dance in the Lord.
The band then launched into Lord of the Dance a celebratory hymn of praise for God and encouragement for His people.
Everybody dance now in the Holy Spirit, sang Heil. Dance they did.
SonicFlood took the Soldiers, family members and guests on an emotional rollercoaster ride, from elation to sadness with excitement and patriotism in between.
Slowing the tempo a bit, Heil spoke of the bands pride and confidence in the nations defenders.
Gesturing to bass guitarist Branden Taulbee, Heil spoke of Taulbees brother, Sgt. Christopher Taulbee, who served with Headquarters and Headquarters Battery, 4-25 Field rtillery Regiment, in Afghanistan.
Brandens brother made it home safe from Afghanistan and we just want you all to remember that God is your shield and your protector in the storm, Heil said.
Tears fell from some faces of many as Heil requested a moment of the audiences time to say a prayer for the Soldiers and the nation.
Bless America and bring America back to you, Heil prayed and went on to ask for healing and guidance for the nations military.
God, a lot of Soldiers are at a crossroads in their lives and we want to give them the answer to peace, Heil added.
The band then launched into Psalm 91 followed by Mayday, and the lyrics of the two songs resonated with the Soldiers, family members and other members of the Eustis community.
God blessed a land thats free from sea to shining sea, Heil sang.
The band closed with a prayer and a call for anyone who wanted to know the Lord or with a need or sorrow on their heart to come forward. Dozens of Soldiers and family members flooded the stage front.
Heil then stepped down from the stage and made his way through the tight crowd, praying and touching the Soldiers moved to God.
Eyes closed, Soldiers knelt, stood and swayed with the prayer and music in benediction to God.
Following the emotional ending, the band consented to a brief interview with The Peninsula Warrior backstage.
We believe in our military and what they do everyday. We believe that theres a war to be won a spiritual and worldly one- and theyre doing it, Heil said.
The rest of the band agreed and spoke of other military installations they have performed at including Anderson Air Force Base, Guam; Fort Bragg and Pope Air Force Base in Fayetteville, N.C.; Fort Lee; and Mannheim, Germany.
We love to do anything to encourage them. We sing and bang on stuff for the Lord to light a fire in them, Heil said.
The concert was the final installment of the Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concert Series.
Love reigns during final Commanding Generals Spiritual Fitness Concert
UV took the words right out of mouth. I wonder how much the commanding officer would encourage his troops to attend a Satanic death metal concert, and put those not wanting to attend to work by cleaning latrines.
My husband was called up to active duty to serve overseas back in '04. I volunteered as the reserve base Family Readiness Group Leader for three years. When you aren't a Christian, it's very very obvious how Christian bias is prevalent in the military.
My husband was called up to active duty to serve overseas back in '04. I volunteered as the reserve base Family Readiness Group Leader for three years. When you aren't a Christian, it's very very obvious how Christian bias is prevalent in the military.
Alceste
Vagabond
Heil is so similar to both Hail and Hell.
Just sayin.
Does anybody find this whole thing eeeiry besides me?
"The Stepford Soldiers"
It actually is German for hail. As in "heil, hitler".
Just saying.
blackout
Violet.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
These guys have most likely now moved on to their next assignment and the "offending commander" is no longer their commander. They had already been at the school in question 7 months in May. Most military schools would be over by now, though there definitely are some MOS's that have a longer AIT schedule.
Furthermore, it is a myth that active duty military do not have legal recourse to lodge formal complaints. They absolutely DO and their commanders ALSO fall under a chain of command.
Most military service is nothing like basic training. After basic training, other than some hardcore schools like Ranger, SEALS, Airborne (specialized schools for a minority of personnel), the days of drill sergeants and instructors screaming in the faces of active duty personnel are over, except in the rarest of circumstances (usually involving insubordnition or sheer stupidity on the part of the soldier).
Furthermore, it is a myth that active duty military do not have legal recourse to lodge formal complaints. They absolutely DO and their commanders ALSO fall under a chain of command.
Most military service is nothing like basic training. After basic training, other than some hardcore schools like Ranger, SEALS, Airborne (specialized schools for a minority of personnel), the days of drill sergeants and instructors screaming in the faces of active duty personnel are over, except in the rarest of circumstances (usually involving insubordnition or sheer stupidity on the part of the soldier).
Alceste
Vagabond
You know, this reminds me of a camp I once went to with a Pentecostal friend. I was a vegetarian at the time and because of this small measure of independent thought I was made to eat alone. They pulled a curtain across half the dining room just to create a space where I could eat alone. I didn't mind much because those fundie kids weren't exactly great conversationalists, but for a normal teenager I imagine the pressure to conform would have felt quite compelling and the punishment humiliating.
Makes me suspect this type of ham-fisted punishment of independent thinking is simply part of evangelical culture.
Makes me suspect this type of ham-fisted punishment of independent thinking is simply part of evangelical culture.
Smoke
Done here.
No, it's not an exaggeration. It's a lie.
No doubt that's true, when it's your own faith. When it's the faith of your superior officer, imposed on you against your will, it has quite a different significance.
I blame all who support/allow such policy. It isn't about party affiliation.
Smoke
Done here.
I agree. Reagan may have let the horse out of the barn, but it's Obama's job to get it back in.
Alceste
Vagabond
It's not about partisanship, it's about assigning credit where credit is due. No doubt the current administration and all former administrations feel they have bigger fish to fry than going through every existing piece of regulation enacted by every government in US history looking for policies that have had a deleterious impact on civil liberties.
Not that I disagree in principle with such a project - I only think it would be prohibitively expensive.
Alceste
Vagabond
That would be great, but he's given no sign so far that he opposes the dominionist movement even in principle, let alone in deed.