BSM1
What? Me worry?
So now you want the doctor's head? I guess we all have our trophies.
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Trophy Hunting, Ethical or Unethical?
- Thread starter jojom
- Start date
So now you want the doctor's head? I guess we all have our trophies.
I don't want his head.
But I would be happy to see his practice destroyed and sold for pennies on the dollar. I would enjoy him spending the rest of his life regretting that his thrill of destruction bit him back hard. I would enjoy his having media folks constantly asking him, "So, how does it feel to trade in the American Dream on an animal trophy?"
Tom
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Hoe much would you pay for the privilege of instigating this punishment?
$20 maybe, just to help out a little.
I am more inclined to invest in preventing future problems than the already done ones.
I expect the retribution is already underway, such as it is. I am confident that very soon nobody will care anymore. You couldn't keep the media focussed if it were a hundred little kids starving or something.
The good doctor will be saving up for a trip to the tiger country of India or something.
Tom
I have observed a connection between rather “evil” people who blame everyone else for their own demons, who typically are on drugs as well and often both drugs and drinking, and those males who are largely for whatever reason from bad nature to mental quirks and stubborn rejected by women (but this is not true of the women “hunters” who often are very attractive to males), who start off hurting animals and then become “trophy hunters”. They also seem to engage in professions that, even if giving positive benefit to society, also involve giving pain to others.
Overall, and this may only be a personal observation that was circumstantial, I never like the few people I met who were into this. I remember, there was a bar in Rio Vista which on the walls were literally dozens of such “trophy heads”. The guy who ran it was some sort of trophy hunter, I believe from the 1950s into the 1960s. I think he was already dead when me and a friend happened to stop by there out of curiosity upon seeing the “heads” from the outside street through an open door.
Every single person in the bar was quirky and we didn’t like even one of them who mostly were there to look at the “heads” and drink hard liquor but were not even “true cowboys” but a bunch of losers. Sorry, my impression is this trophy hunting thing is for the sick-os. I know some Hells Angels can be pretty sick, too, but I like even some of them, but pretty much don’t like “trophy hunters”. Though my religion has a strong “ahimsa” (non-injury) element, I can no doubt be very injurious to humans who mess with the innocent or certain others, but when they do useless violence to animals my “Bambi” spirit kicks in and I don’t like them. Sure, if you really need to hunt for food (like in Alaska, no money and looking at caribou or something), that’s ok even though it would be better if you learned to invest your money and make millions instead of hunting for grub. But those who do this “trophy hunting” stuff are off my books.
Overall, and this may only be a personal observation that was circumstantial, I never like the few people I met who were into this. I remember, there was a bar in Rio Vista which on the walls were literally dozens of such “trophy heads”. The guy who ran it was some sort of trophy hunter, I believe from the 1950s into the 1960s. I think he was already dead when me and a friend happened to stop by there out of curiosity upon seeing the “heads” from the outside street through an open door.
Every single person in the bar was quirky and we didn’t like even one of them who mostly were there to look at the “heads” and drink hard liquor but were not even “true cowboys” but a bunch of losers. Sorry, my impression is this trophy hunting thing is for the sick-os. I know some Hells Angels can be pretty sick, too, but I like even some of them, but pretty much don’t like “trophy hunters”. Though my religion has a strong “ahimsa” (non-injury) element, I can no doubt be very injurious to humans who mess with the innocent or certain others, but when they do useless violence to animals my “Bambi” spirit kicks in and I don’t like them. Sure, if you really need to hunt for food (like in Alaska, no money and looking at caribou or something), that’s ok even though it would be better if you learned to invest your money and make millions instead of hunting for grub. But those who do this “trophy hunting” stuff are off my books.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
I am not gaining a trophy any more than I would be if I publicized the activities of a Minnesotan dentist going on sex tours of the Philippines. The combination of poverty and lax age of consent laws makes renting young bodies safe and affordable and legal. Doesn't change the fact that it's immoral and destructive. So yeah, I'll use what I have to combat it. If shame is the best I got I'll use it.
Hell yes.
Tom
I'm pretty sure you have to be a sociopath to engage in trophy hunting.
Of course it's unethical. It is an act of gaining pleasure out of causing pain.
Yep. It's called Sadism.
When is unnecessary killing (aka Murder) 'humane'? Seems like an oxymoron to me.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
So shooting a lion is equivalent to sexually abusing a child?
Thana
Lady
I wouldn't go that far. Some people like video games, some people like hunting. It's not Sadism, Sadism is pleasure from inflicting pain. Killing is not the same.
Humane as in it doesn't cause unnecessary pain. Death, for some, is a gift not something to begrudge. Pain however is cruelty, plain and simple.
I am at UC Berkeley today (Sunday) and I found published in a recent UC magazine today the following in relation to trophy hunting discussion:
"If you fly over parts of Tsavo today—and I challenge anyone to do so, if you have the eyes for it – you can see lines of snares set out in funnel traps that extend four or five miles. Tens of thousands of animals are being killed annually for the meat business. Carnivores are being decimated in the same snares and discarded. I am not a propagandist on this issue, but when my friends say we are very concerned that hunting will be reintroduced in Kenya, let me put it to you: hunting has never been stopped in Kenya, and there is more hunting in Kenya today than at any time since independence. (Thousands) of animals are being killed annually with no control. Snaring, poisoning, and shooting are common things. So when you have a fear of debate about hunting, please don’t think there is no hunting. Think of a policy to regulate it, so that we can make it sustainable. That is surely the issue, because an illegal crop, an illegal market is unsustainable in the long term, whatever it is. And the market in wildlife meat is unsustainable as currently practiced, and something needs to be done."
-Richard Leakey, in an address to the Strathmore Business School, Nairobi
... so these are the facts. I am not excusing trophy hunting, anyone who knows me also knows how I feel about that and am an ardent fan of the Bengal tiger (even though as a boy I literally loved those "Man Eaters of [some state in India] type books), among other wildlife.
But a real problem is "bush meat". Which also, by the way, spreads ebola (eating monkey and bat).
Africa is eating bush meat - it is a big problem. More wildlife and "big game" are murdered as bush meat than trophy hunting, and the situation is much worse now than before independence. Something to think about, unethical bush meat in addition to unethical trophy hunting.
"If you fly over parts of Tsavo today—and I challenge anyone to do so, if you have the eyes for it – you can see lines of snares set out in funnel traps that extend four or five miles. Tens of thousands of animals are being killed annually for the meat business. Carnivores are being decimated in the same snares and discarded. I am not a propagandist on this issue, but when my friends say we are very concerned that hunting will be reintroduced in Kenya, let me put it to you: hunting has never been stopped in Kenya, and there is more hunting in Kenya today than at any time since independence. (Thousands) of animals are being killed annually with no control. Snaring, poisoning, and shooting are common things. So when you have a fear of debate about hunting, please don’t think there is no hunting. Think of a policy to regulate it, so that we can make it sustainable. That is surely the issue, because an illegal crop, an illegal market is unsustainable in the long term, whatever it is. And the market in wildlife meat is unsustainable as currently practiced, and something needs to be done."
-Richard Leakey, in an address to the Strathmore Business School, Nairobi
... so these are the facts. I am not excusing trophy hunting, anyone who knows me also knows how I feel about that and am an ardent fan of the Bengal tiger (even though as a boy I literally loved those "Man Eaters of [some state in India] type books), among other wildlife.
But a real problem is "bush meat". Which also, by the way, spreads ebola (eating monkey and bat).
Africa is eating bush meat - it is a big problem. More wildlife and "big game" are murdered as bush meat than trophy hunting, and the situation is much worse now than before independence. Something to think about, unethical bush meat in addition to unethical trophy hunting.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
I was recently shown a decent song that happened to remind me of this thread.
I didn't say that they were equivalent in every way.
What they do have in common is wealthy privileged guys going to great lengths to enjoy a cheap thrill from causing great damage. They can afford to pay who they have to and don't actually break the law in the desperately poor places they go to get their kicks. So the only legitimate response I know about is to publically shame them to the largest possible extent.
Similar to what is happening to Bill Cosby. The statute of limitations has run out and he won't be tried in criminal Court. But that doesn't mean he is off the hook entirely. As it should be.
Tom
jojom
Active Member
"Sociopath " is going a bit far, and as far as unethical, that depends one one's ethical system. Moreover, I don't believe deriving pleasure out of causing pain is the motivation.
.
Deriving pleasure from killing seems a bit sociopathic to me. Sociopaths are known for their violent behaviour, enjoying the act of causing pain to feeling creatures. They are known for their big egos too. I doubt that someone who likes to display their kills is very humble. Sociopaths don't feel guilt. People who enjoy killing sentient creatures probably don't feel a lot of guilt about it. Sociopaths like to dominate others. Killing for a trophy seems like a means of making oneself feel very dominant.
If someone hunts for the fun of it, to gain a trophy, I would stay far away from them. Seems like a dangerous person to me.
I agree that morality is highly subjective. So I can only say that from my perspective, the act is absolutely unethical. Killing for the sake of selfish interest is unethical, imo.
Some people like video games, some people like hunting. Some people like to kill other people.
People who play video games know they aren't actually hurting anyone. There's a huge difference.
And yes, sadists enjoy killing too. It goes hand in hand with wanting to cause pain.
Do you think killing via hunting doesn't cause pain? Not only is death painful, it's also very scary to the one being murdered. Hunting for pleasure IS unnecessary.
In other words, hunting for the thrill or for the ego (because what else is collecting dead bodies for trophies for), is causing unnecessary pain, which = inhumane.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
I have to say that Cecil the lion did not die in vain. It is really, really wonderful to see these conversations taking place across the social media.
Trophy hunting is something we need to talk about.
Now I see it as unethical and deeply offensive.
However (and it's a BIG 'however') rich Americans going to hunt game (is it still 'game' when it's in a paddock?) in Africa pay big money - that big money has bought a lot of land that has been re-vegetated and stocked with animals like Sable which otherwise would be approaching extinction.
Ban trophy hunting and the long term survivability of most of the big game species will be catastrophically reduced.
So do we prefer trophy hunting of Sable, or no Sable? Trophy hunting of lions, or no lions?
Trophy hunting is something we need to talk about.
Now I see it as unethical and deeply offensive.
However (and it's a BIG 'however') rich Americans going to hunt game (is it still 'game' when it's in a paddock?) in Africa pay big money - that big money has bought a lot of land that has been re-vegetated and stocked with animals like Sable which otherwise would be approaching extinction.
Ban trophy hunting and the long term survivability of most of the big game species will be catastrophically reduced.
So do we prefer trophy hunting of Sable, or no Sable? Trophy hunting of lions, or no lions?
Skwim
Veteran Member
FYI.
"Key traits that sociopaths and psychopaths share include:
Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned."
source
(For the defining traits of the psychopath see the linked article.)A disregard for laws and social mores
A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior
In addition to their commonalities, sociopaths and psychopaths also have their own unique behavioral characteristics, as well.A disregard for the rights of others
A failure to feel remorse or guilt
A tendency to display violent behavior
Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned."
source
Thing is, few if any trophy hunters fit the sociopath profile.