Trump and the Character of a President

[Guitar's Cry]

Often both go hand in hand. Take the relationship between the US with KSA and Pakistan.

True.

No it does. You are conflating government interaction with cultural exchanges between normal people.

The two aren't really all that different. People react emotionally to words and the context they are used in. When a leader is being diplomatic, they are capable of expressing themselves in a way that is responsive and respected, not unlike folks that are good at adapting to social situations.

No it isn't. You just object to the joke, target and audience scale while projecting you idea of what is acceptable to the voter. Remember that Trump beat Cruz. You invoke context but ignore it later.

Again you are just projecting a standard from your head.

It is a difference. They are different situations with different social nuances and purposes. You are correct that I am projecting a standard; you are as well, of course. We are engaging in exactly what this thread is about: judging character.

There is nothing to say that political rivals can't engage in bullying tactics other than the fact that they have little to do with policy and show more about character. I personally find it juvenile and petty, and the tactics of a reality show host. Which is, of course, the case. And it was effective for those who enjoy that type of entertainment.

We are not discussing that part of the topic. You and another user are.

Come again? Here's the exchange:

Unreasonable expectations would you say? How would you relate these expectations to other community leaders who take on responsibilities that intimately affect people?

Yes as the view is mostly based on optics. It seems like every 2nd POTUS has major issues but cover it by smooth talking. Trump doesn't care to smooth talk the public at large.

Stop placing one's wishes on to people they do not know.

I was responding to your latter assertion. Community leaders have much power and affect people. Understanding a President's character is important in this way.

 

[Shad]

True.



The two aren't really all that different. People react emotionally to words and the context they are used in.

So? At times truths hurt.

When a leader is being diplomatic, they are capable of expressing themselves in a way that is responsive and respected

Only from your point of view. Some people respect honesty. Some people respect calling a spade a spade over those false pleasantries.

not unlike folks that are good at adapting to social situations.

You are assuming lack of adaption is not a choice.

It is a difference. They are different situations with different social nuances and purposes. You are correct that I am projecting a standard; you are as well, of course. We are engaging in exactly what this thread is about: judging character.

We are bickering over standards really. I reject your standard as useful in all cases.

There is nothing to say that political rivals can't engage in bullying tactics other than the fact that they have little to do with policy and show more about character.

Which can demonstrate resolve, disdain for the politicians process's idea of etiquette, disdain for false pleasantries. Trump has forces many to drop the act or merely change their act thus exposing their deceptions like Cruz.

Have you read about Trudeau's trip to India during his first term? Etiquette got him no where.

I personally find it juvenile and petty, and the tactics of a reality show host.

Trump is putting on a show. He is doubling down on what he did in the apprentice because he thinks it works. He is not a politician. When he thinks etiquette and pleasantries work he tries that. Beside etiquette does always work. See; WW2. How much smoke did Chamberlain blow?

Which is, of course, the case. And it was effective for those who enjoy that type of entertainment.

Some of his jabs during the 2016 debates were spot on.



Come again? Here's the exchange:

I was responding to your latter assertion. Community leaders have much power and affect people. Understanding a President's character is important in this way.

My first point was about expectation being optics as in framing not true character. A con can smooth talk as easily as an honest person. If you are fooled by the con your character assessment is flawed.

How many people thought JFK was a good family man? What was he really like? Nixon?

For good and bad Trump is the most open POTUS in years. His character is more exposed instead of the fake characters politicians play for the voter.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So? At times truths hurt.

That's a rather simplistic statement concerning the complexities of human social interaction. Also, it is assuming truth where truth need not be. I, as an international diplomat, may be forthright in my opinion while being respectful.

Only from your point of view. Some people respect honesty. Some people respect calling a spade a spade over those false pleasantries.

Some do. But keep in mind that we are discussing this in the context of world leaders who interact with each from different cultures whose decisions affect a great many people. Call a spade a spade, but do so pragmatically.

You are assuming lack of adaption is not a choice.

Sometimes it's not. Especially amongst common people interacting.

We are bickering over standards really. I reject your standard as useful in all cases.

We are, and you do. I likely do so for yours as well.

Which can demonstrate resolve, disdain for the politicians process's idea of etiquette, disdain for false pleasantries. Trump has forces many to drop the act or merely change their act thus exposing their deceptions like Cruz.

By resorting to insults? How? I suspect it has to do with frustrating folks to retaliate likewise, which is entertaining for some, but unhelpful in policy debate. (Though helpful in revealing Trump's character. )

Have you read about Trudeau's trip to India during his first term? Etiquette got him no where.

I have. He messed up, but that seemed more like an exaggeration of etiquette, and not the nuanced etiquette of a good diplomat. Mistakes happen. Likely he learned from it.

Trump is putting on a show. He is doubling down on what he did in the apprentice because he thinks it works. He is not a politician. When he thinks etiquette and pleasantries work he tries that. Beside etiquette does always work. See; WW2. How much smoke did Chamberlain blow?

He is putting on a show. And it shows his character. A good part of his character is a brand; a caricature he has developed.

Etiquette doesn't always work, and neither do reality show, bullying tactics.

Some of his jabs during the 2016 debates were spot on.

Such as?

My first point was about expectation being optics as in framing not true character. A con can smooth talk as easily as an honest person. If you are fooled by the con your character assessment is flawed.

How many people thought JFK was a good family man? What was he really like? Nixon?

For good and bad Trump is the most open POTUS in years. His character is more exposed instead of the fake characters politicians play for the voter.

I agree with you in some ways. I know that Trump is not a man to be trusted. He appears to change positions not due to developing knowledge or experience, but how that position is going to suit him. (Which is, of course, typical for many politicians.)

It is true that we cannot truly know the character of candidates. We have to do our best though. And I can't agree that Trump's dishonest honesty is worth his character.

 

[Shad]

That's a rather simplistic statement concerning the complexities of human social interaction.

My point is about blowing smoke.

Also, it is assuming truth where truth need not be.

Nope as I gave no specific example.

I, as an international diplomat, may be forthright in my opinion while being respectful.

At time respect isn't warranted.

Some do. But keep in mind that we are discussing this in the context of world leaders who interact with each from different cultures whose decisions affect a great many people. Call a spade a spade, but do so pragmatically.

Which is a problem at it let's people brush off criticism and play games.

Sometimes it's not. Especially amongst common people interacting.

Versus blowing smoke right? I do not believe in being diplomatic for the sake of it.

We are, and you do. I likely do so for yours as well.

There is probably a middle ground depending on subject.

By resorting to insults? How?

Some insults are true. Some facts are insulting.

I suspect it has to do with frustrating folks to retaliate likewise, which is entertaining for some, but unhelpful in policy debate. (Though helpful in revealing Trump's character. )

Cruz as well as now Cruz defends him. I never had a high opinion of Trump. I loath the fake characters politicians play.

I have. He messed up, but that seemed more like an exaggeration of etiquette, and not the nuanced etiquette of a good diplomat. Mistakes happen. Likely he learned from it.

I think it is far more based on what benefit he believes is gained. A number of POTUS has done far far worse. Go look up Lindon Johnson and his penis antics. Wilson and his ministry of information

He is putting on a show. And it shows his character. A good part of his character is a brand; a caricature he has developed.

Trump isn't a good actor in my view.

Etiquette doesn't always work, and neither do reality show, bullying tactics.

Sure. However results and goals need to be considered.

Such as?

Hillary and her server. His replies to Clinton's vain attempt at bring up marriage issues.

I agree with you in some ways. I know that Trump is not a man to be trusted.

I do not trust anyone at that level of government.

He appears to change positions not due to developing knowledge or experience, but how that position is going to suit him. (Which is, of course, typical for many politicians.)

I would add a narrow form of populism based on party perception. Both parties do it here and there.

It is true that we cannot truly know the character of candidates. We have to do our best though. And I can't agree that Trump's dishonest honesty is worth his character.

The only difference is you know about the dishonesty now instead of later.