Trump attacks Mueller on Twitter

[idav]

I understand what a plea deal is, but usually to do not give them to people who have proven to give false testimony as that evidence would be inadmissible in any court. The Russian investigation has gone way out of scope given that people tiers of levels away from the campaign including Trump's businesses are under scrutiny. It doesn't even make sense that people in those operations would have much to do with the campaign, so what's going on?

How does this investigation require a special council when it has left the building at the DOJ? He may lose every single case he presents because of over-reach. It'll be called into question even why he knows what he knows and why he was even looking. It's going to be civil rights violation after violation, and a whole **** show. Don't trust me though, just wait.

What is more interesting to me than all the plea deals to criminals is what high crimes these people were threatened with that they all took plea deals. Anyone of them could tell Meuller to shove it and make him prove it in court. And one of them, Manafort already tested your theory. His lawyer tried to say Mueller over stepped and a Virginia judge wasn't buying it. They set to trial in July I believe facing 300 years. The true test is coming. Get your popcorn ready.

 

[Mindmaster]

What is more interesting to me than all the plea deals to criminals is what high crimes these people were threatened with that they all took plea deals. Anyone of them could tell Meuller to shove it and make him prove it in court. And one of them, Manafort already tested your theory. His lawyer tried to say Mueller over stepped and a Virginia judge wasn't buying it. They set to trial in July I believe facing 300 years. The true test is coming. Get your popcorn ready.

The outcome of the Gates or Manafort case really aren't too important to me as they really have nothing to do with Trump. And even that ruling can likely be taken up the court chain with appeals, so I'm not sold on anything yet. Personally, I am just in sit and wait mode with those two and with Trump most of the allegations are ridiculous. If Mueller gets pulled into the whole Comey and McCabe fiasco he's going to stop investigating and batten down the hatches. I foresee this as the most likely outcome. I have no doubt Manafort and Gates are already screwed in every conceivable way, but it's just a matter of 'how screwed' they are. It still doesn't change my opinion that Mueller is over-reaching and doing some shady side deals. Mueller is all tied up in the Uranium One fiasco and that crap is going live soon - I've heard investigators have videotapes so this isn't mere assertion. There are bribes, side dealings, and other federal officials with hands so dirty it'll make the rest of this look pathetic by comparison.

 

[Falvlun]

“Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down.” -Newt Gingrich, May 17, 2017

Just wanted to share this, seeing as how conservatives are now going the “attack Mueller route”.

 

[Mindmaster]

As for overreach and civil rights violations, it’s hard to believe that this investigation involves such after seeing the relentless investigating of Hilary Clinton (or all the torturous wanderings of ken star’s whitewater investigation.) Do you have any evidence of overreach or civil rights violations besides your above debunked “tiers of levels away” theory?

I'd consider it a civil rights violation if you used an investigation and warrant to investigate Trump to prosecute crimes other people have committed in their personal affairs. If the investigation was solely on the premise that these guys were doing crimes and that FISA warrant wasn't used as grounds to collect that data I'd be fine.

Basically, the gist of this is say one of your bosses got investigated and they expanded that to include your personal data - well, I think most of that would think that is wrong regardless of your guilt or whatever. This is going to be the problem bringing all of these things to trial - the perception will be that you were investigating Trump under a blanket warrant and you didn't control your investigation to be within the scope of that warrant. So, you have no grounds to investigate and no grounds to prosecute the others. Blanket warrants like this do not fair well in the courtroom, it comes off as an abuse of power.

Don't take that to think that I think Gates or Manafort weren't involved in some shady ****, just that the means used to obtain the evidence is very questionable and sets terrible precedents in our legal system.

 

[Mindmaster]

“Robert Mueller is superb choice to be special counsel. His reputation is impeccable for honesty and integrity. Media should now calm down.” -Newt Gingrich, May 17, 2017

Just wanted to share this, seeing as how conservatives are now going the “attack Mueller route”.

Newt is a retired globalist neo-con, the party-less establishment as it were. Who cares what he thinks?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Newt is a retired globalist neo-con, the party-less establishment as it were. Who cares what he thinks?

I loves a nice game of "no true Scotsman", me.

 

[idav]

The outcome of the Gates or Manafort case really aren't too important to me as they really have nothing to do with Trump. And even that ruling can likely be taken up the court chain with appeals, so I'm not sold on anything yet. Personally, I am just in sit and wait mode with those two and with Trump most of the allegations are ridiculous. If Mueller gets pulled into the whole Comey and McCabe fiasco he's going to stop investigating and batten down the hatches. I foresee this as the most likely outcome. I have no doubt Manafort and Gates are already screwed in every conceivable way, but it's just a matter of 'how screwed' they are. It still doesn't change my opinion that Mueller is over-reaching and doing some shady side deals. Mueller is all tied up in the Uranium One fiasco and that crap is going live soon - I've heard investigators have videotapes so this isn't mere assertion. There are bribes, side dealings, and other federal officials with hands so dirty it'll make the rest of this look pathetic by comparison.

It really isnt the case that they just happened upon Gates and Manfort just because of the election stuff, FBI has been looking at Russian ties for an ever. Especially since the DNC hacking. What trump allegations are you talking about.? Trump has certainly has been complacent about the matter but he certainly didnt personally do the hacking but for some reason trump supporters dont care that our government is being hacked. Its worth any effort to see if the campaigns are involved with illegal collusion and you can thank Trumps dumb mouth and shady henchmen for all of this getting stupid chaotic. If he is innocent he should start acting like it and stop acting like its the Trump probe, its not.

 

[Mindmaster]

I loves a nice game of "no true Scotsman", me.

It's more like a game of who shills for the deep state no-party party that screws everything up.

We're all entitled to our opinions, lol.

The Clinton, Bush, and Obama are all the in same party pretending to be different ones. Newt and Mueller are in with them too, so his comments don't surprise me.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I'd consider it a civil rights violation if you used an investigation and warrant to investigate Trump to prosecute crimes other people have committed in their personal affairs. If the investigation was solely on the premise that these guys were doing crimes and that FISA warrant wasn't used as grounds to collect that data I'd be fine.

Basically, the gist of this is say one of your bosses got investigated and they expanded that to include your personal data - well, I think most of that would think that is wrong regardless of your guilt or whatever. This is going to be the problem bringing all of these things to trial - the perception will be that you were investigating Trump under a blanket warrant and you didn't control your investigation to be within the scope of that warrant. So, you have no grounds to investigate and no grounds to prosecute the others. Blanket warrants like this do not fair well in the courtroom, it comes off as an abuse of power.

Don't take that to think that I think Gates or Manafort weren't involved in some shady ****, just that the means used to obtain the evidence is very questionable and sets terrible precedents in our legal system.

This appears to have been in the "talking points of the week" memo they all get. As usual, it's only interesting largely due to just how thoroughly it contradicts previous talking points of the week. But we can expect this to be treated as unimpeachable holy writ in this specific instance, and never brought up again, especially in all similar cases where the person making such deals to secure convictions is of the "correct" ideological stripe.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It's more like a game of who shills for the deep state no-party party that screws everything up.

We're all entitled to our opinions, lol.

The Clinton, Bush, and Obama are all the in same party pretending to be different ones. Newt and Mueller are in with them too, so his comments don't surprise me.

Uh-huh.

 

[Mindmaster]

It really isnt the case that they just happened upon Gates and Manfort just because of the election stuff, FBI has been looking at Russian ties for an ever. Especially since the DNC hacking. What trump allegations are you talking about.? Trump has certainly has been complacent about the matter but he certainly didnt personally do the hacking but for some reason trump supporters dont care that our government is being hacked. Its worth any effort to see if the campaigns are involved with illegal collusion and you can thank Trumps dumb mouth and shady henchmen for all of this getting stupid chaotic. If he is innocent he should start acting like it and stop acting like its the Trump probe, its not.

Accuse others of colluding with Russia while you are actually colluding with Russia, I find it amusing to say the least.

 

[Shadow Link]

Accuse others of colluding with Russia while you are actually colluding with Russia, I find it amusing to say the least.

Along with this term too, perhaps...


Resentiment - Feeling or sense of anything; the state of being deeply affected by anything.

 

[idav]

Accuse others of colluding with Russia while you are actually colluding with Russia, I find it amusing to say the least.

Investigations don't work the way you want. Typically there are several suspects for crimes until an investigation is done. If a company for example is investigated for financial crime typically anyone with financial access would be suspect, not just the guilty parties. If people would just confess their crimes it would be great but that rarely happens.

 

[Nakosis]

So according to the daily beast Trump is upset about Muellers supeona for his oganization to hand over documents on Russian collusion and his taxes.


He was so nervous and edgy about it he attacked Mueller on Twitter. How did this happen? All you Trump supporters keep saying this stuff means nothing hes not in trouble presidents cant get into trouble then why the attack on twitter?

People in the white house told Daily Beast hes been irritated at Meuller, why the irritaion unless hes being investigated for serioius crimes?

Probably because while there was no political collusion between Trump and Russia, there was financial collusion.

"Set aside Putin and follow the money": a Russia expert’s theory of the Trump scandal

Start looking at tax returns and that financial collusion will show up.

I don't know if being in bed with Russia financially is criminal but it's going to give a lot more material for the media to throw at Trump. Even if nothing comes of it he'll never get that monkey off his back.

 

[Falvlun]

I'd consider it a civil rights violation if you used an investigation and warrant to investigate Trump to prosecute crimes other people have committed in their personal affairs. If the investigation was solely on the premise that these guys were doing crimes and that FISA warrant wasn't used as grounds to collect that data I'd be fine.

Basically, the gist of this is say one of your bosses got investigated and they expanded that to include your personal data - well, I think most of that would think that is wrong regardless of your guilt or whatever. This is going to be the problem bringing all of these things to trial - the perception will be that you were investigating Trump under a blanket warrant and you didn't control your investigation to be within the scope of that warrant. So, you have no grounds to investigate and no grounds to prosecute the others. Blanket warrants like this do not fair well in the courtroom, it comes off as an abuse of power.

Don't take that to think that I think Gates or Manafort weren't involved in some shady ****, just that the means used to obtain the evidence is very questionable and sets terrible precedents in our legal system.

The Special Counsel was tasked with “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation”. I would say that investigating Russian links within the Trump campaign staff would be a natural investigative step. And then, if those connections proved to be criminal, it would be a matter that rose directly from the investigation.

As for your boss scenario, the problem is that Trump was never singled out as the focus of the investigation. Again, Mueller’s order is to investigate “any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of Donald Trump”.

In other words, the “employees” were always within the scope of the investigation.

As for a “blanket warrant”, that doesn’t exist. Mueller can follow the investigation where it leads, sure, but he still has to get warrants for each piece he’s going after.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I understand what a plea deal is, but usually to do not give them to people who have proven to give false testimony as that evidence would be inadmissible in any court. The Russian investigation has gone way out of scope given that people tiers of levels away from the campaign including Trump's businesses are under scrutiny. It doesn't even make sense that people in those operations would have much to do with the campaign, so what's going on?

You don't seem to understand how racketeering investigations go. You start with the small fish and get them to turn on the medium-sized fish, who then are motivated to flip on the big fish, who then provide information for the investigator regarding the kingpin. The testimony of these people may not be needed.

This is how they usually bring down mafia dons heading crime syndicates. It's how they brought down Gotti and the Gambinos, and it will likely do the same for the Trumps.

Manafort already tested your theory. His lawyer tried to say Mueller over stepped and a Virginia judge wasn't buying it. They set to trial in July I believe facing 300 years.

There's apparently a second trial scheduled for September: Mulling Manafort's unusual two-trial strategy

If Mueller gets pulled into the whole Comey and McCabe fiasco he's going to stop investigating and batten down the hatches

I'd say that it would just add to the obstruction charges against Trump.

Don't forget Rybicki and Baker. That's two more counts

Mueller is all tied up in the Uranium One fiasco

There is no Uranium One fiasco, just the usual conservative antics. Feel free to check out the Shepard Smith and Joy Reid links debunking that:

[1] FNC's Shep Smith: Hillary Clinton Had Nothing To Do With 'Uranium One' Sale

[2]

Accuse others of colluding with Russia while you are actually colluding with Russia, I find it amusing to say the least.

That is Trump's strategy. Always.

Fix an election and accuse Hillary of that. Call your opponent crooked when that word characterizes you entire career from a fraudulent University to money laundering though your casinos. Accuse Hillary of colluding with the Russians when that is what you are doing. Accuse her of improprieties via a charitable fund when you have done just that.

 

[Mindmaster]

As for a “blanket warrant”, that doesn’t exist. Mueller can follow the investigation where it leads, sure, but he still has to get warrants for each piece he’s going after.

I just think this all going to fall apart in the courtroom, there is going to be a jury there and the jury isn't going to like seeing such witch hunt behavior. Unless the evidence is compelling against Trump the jury is going a) acknowledge this is a sitting President and probably rule in his favor or in this case Gates and Manaforts, b) see this as invasive wire-tap abuse, and it may even get the judge to issue a ruling against FISA. They really, and I mean _really_ don't want this to go to court. People generally don't support this type of surveillance against citizens unless it is enemy of the state situations, and there are no enemies here. Russia isn't an actual enemy of the USA, so it's going to be hype and propaganda in order to influence the jury.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

It is pretty clear there is something substantial going on. To who and what extent we can't be sure. My feeling is the investigation is going to be completed regardless of what cheeto-in-chief decides to do.

Yep and at the same time Republicans are warning him he'd better not fire Mueller, so he may be irritated realizing he's in a corner. Exactly on what though? Million dollar question, ain't it?

 

[Mindmaster]

You don't seem to understand how racketeering investigations go. You start with the small fish and get them to turn on the medium-sized fish, who then are motivated to flip on the big fish, who then provide information for the investigator regarding the kingpin. The testimony of these people may not be needed.

This has never been declared a RICO case, it'll be really hard to justify what is being done in court.

Anyway, I get the point - this forum is full of Trump haters, reason be damned. I'll leave it here for greener pastures.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

Probably because while there was no political collusion between Trump and Russia, there was financial collusion.

We don't know that there was no 'political collusion'. Republicans are saying that, but admitted that Russia influenced our election. They deny that Trump benefited by it. Why should we believe them?