Trump diverts funds from military

[sun rise]

A wall still works in the form of an obstacle. Drones can not cover every inch of the border.

Do walls stop drug trafficking? Not really - there are tunnels, boats, planes, bribery and so forth.

Do walls STOP people. Not really, they make it harder for people to cross but that's it. Even if we had the kind of border wall East Germany put up with extensive physical barriers and shoot-to-kill border guards, people still ran for freedom and many made it.

If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration, we'd do it by really going after the employers and fining them so much that it really hurts as well as arresting, trying and jailing those involved.

So I conclude that the wall is marginally useful in slowing down those who want to cross the border without really addressing the issue.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Congress hides military spending for it's wars outside a lot of the military budget bills by placing spending in foreign aid.

Your point?

 

[Shad]

Do walls stop drug trafficking?

Some directly if people do not want to put the effort in. It slows down movement. It consume time and effort to bypass. If a drone isn't in an area it stops nothing.

Not really - there are tunnels, boats, planes, bribery and so forth.

Yah..

Definition of OBSTACLE

Do walls STOP people.

Wrong. What an absurd absolute statement.

Not really, they make it harder for people to cross but that's it.

Anyone not willing to make an effort is stopped. Open air stops nothing.

Even if we had the kind of border wall East Germany put up with extensive physical barriers and shoot-to-kill border guards, people still ran for freedom and many made it.

Except the Berlin Wall, and other border barriers, combined the use of force kept millions from fleeing the Soviet bloc.

If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration, we'd do it by really going after the employers and fining them so much that it really hurts as well as arresting, trying and jailing those involved.

I completely agree. A lot of employers get away with it as illegals steal ID while government do not require nor provide better background checks. A lot of employers blame E-verify. Trump's companies have. This forces investigators to search for documented illegal conduct and motive which is far harder to find than ID fraud.

So I conclude that the wall is marginally useful in slowing down those who want to cross the border without really addressing the issue.

There are raids on business all the time. Last week I read about a raid at a business with 200 or more illegal workers. You know what MSM did? They put out the sob story. They assumed the guilt of the business without evidence while ignoring the conduct of those caught as illegal workers.

 

[Shad]

Your point?

Information purposes. Looking at military spend bills only shows a part of the costs if one were looking at legislation and funding allocation. I think the 2019 military funding was around 707 billion which is only a fraction of the US budget. The rest is hidden under other categories. Social programs costs more that the DOD budget if only looking for strict categories.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A wall still works in the form of an obstacle. Drones can not cover every inch of the border.

Walls require constant maintenance, and you still need eyes to watch the boarder. Adding a wall adds an inconvenient obstacle for the minority of illegal immigrants coming in, and effective surveillance would rely on 21st century technology, enabling one person to monitor more land and border than several foot patrols combined. We can effectively build an "invisible wall" for a fraction of the cost that does far more than what a wall can and will still need anyways.
In terms of boarder control, a wall is dinosaur-aged technology.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Information purposes. Looking at military spend bills only shows a part of the costs if one were looking at legislation and funding allocation. I think the 2019 military funding was around 707 billion which is only a fraction of the US budget. The rest is hidden under other categories. Social programs costs more that the DOD budget if only looking for strict categories.

And that excuses or removes the attention from a president who taps into it for a personal project, how, exactly?

 

[Shad]

Walls require constant maintenance,

Less often than drones.

and you still need eyes to watch the boarder.

Sure. It needs to be a mix of both systems in my view. A border wall need not be the same design.

Adding a wall adds an inconvenient obstacle for the minority of illegal immigrants coming in, and effective surveillance would rely on 21st century technology, enabling one person to monitor more land and border than several foot patrols combined.

Coverage is still an issue.

We can effectively build an "invisible wall" for a fraction of the cost that does far more than what a wall can and will still need anyways.

Doubt that. The US military can not even do that.

In terms of boarder control, a wall is dinosaur-aged technology.

Nope. Still provides coverage drones can't and a task a drone can never.

 

[Shad]

And that excuses or removes the attention from a president who taps into it for a personal project, how, exactly?

Again it was for information purposes. Get off your ideological horse.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Less often than drones.

Drones are cheaper.

Sure. It needs to be a mix of both systems in my view. A border wall need not be the same design.

A boarder isn't really going to do much that modern surveillance can't.

Coverage is still an issue.

All a wall is is an obstacle. It covers nothing. Eyes are needed to cover the wall. But today we can meet that need to far greater extents even without a wall. Height is taken care off, surveying areas is achieved, and people will still be "there" to be alerted to intruders.

Doubt that. The US military can not even do that.

To my knowledge they've never tried a comprehensive "e-wall" of boarder patrol.

Nope. Still provides coverage drones can't and a task a drone can never.

Except walls are an obstacle. Drones are eyes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Again it was for information purposes. Get off your ideological horse.

You're the one who brought up something entirely unrelated to the subject at hand.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Everybody knew that was a lie before the election, even his supporters. It's of little relevance in 2019, the supporters just don't care where the money comes from, as long as their taxes aren't being raised.

I intend to keep pointing out trump's lies and blunders. The trumpettes might not willingly admit it, but I'll happily trigger their cognitive dissonance where I can.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes. How horrible it would be to cut the defense budget in half, say, take 1/3 of the money to reduce the deficit, 1/3 to go to tax cuts and the final 1/3 to critically underfunded "social" programs.

I'd make the percentages different if it were only me, but I figured that people like tax cuts and some of us like deficit reduction so I thought this was a good starting point.

Tax cuts?
An unexpected suggestion.
I like it!
But if you get the power to implement that suggestion,
please let us discuss the how of the cuts. I have some
ideas you'll eventually (after a little persuasion) like.

 

[Shad]

Drones are cheaper.

In part. You have to account for equipment, training, maintenance and coverage. You ignore those.

A boarder isn't really going to do much that modern surveillance can't.

Wrong. Do you know what an obstacle is?

All a wall is is an obstacle. It covers nothing. Eyes are needed to cover the wall. But today we can meet that need to far greater extents even without a wall. Height is taken care off, surveying areas is achieved, and people will still be "there" to be alerted to intruders.

Both can be used.

To my knowledge they've never tried a comprehensive "e-wall" of boarder patrol.

Same.

Except walls are an obstacle. Drones are eyes.

Ergo different purposes.

 

[Shad]

You're the one who brought up something entirely unrelated to the subject at hand.

No. You brought up military budget. I pointed out a lot of military spending is covered in other bills not merely the military budget bills.

 

[Riders]

Another article says he is diverting quite a few funds from West point college.canthe college do without those funds? I don't think he should be diverting money away from our military college.

 

[Curious George]

Do walls stop drug trafficking? Not really - there are tunnels, boats, planes, bribery and so forth.

Do walls STOP people. Not really, they make it harder for people to cross but that's it. Even if we had the kind of border wall East Germany put up with extensive physical barriers and shoot-to-kill border guards, people still ran for freedom and many made it.

If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration, we'd do it by really going after the employers and fining them so much that it really hurts as well as arresting, trying and jailing those involved.

So I conclude that the wall is marginally useful in slowing down those who want to cross the border without really addressing the issue.

Something to consider:

Does gun control stop killing? Not really there are still knives, bombs, cars, planes and so forth.

Does gun control stop people? Not really, it makes it harder to use a gun in a crime but people can still get guns if they really want to.

If we really want to stop gun crime we will focus on the root issues...

It is an interesting parallel with your argument, no?

I am with you on building wall. Our current barrier is meeting our needs to an extent that a new wall would not be worth the money spent, let alone the loss of goodwill from building such a structure.

Trump made this issue about more than just improving border security so that is where the issue stands. Trump should not have a new wall.

 

[Shaul]

I can't wait for a Democratic President to divert money away from the military for positive purposes. "Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind".

Democrats have diverted funds in the past.

 

[Shaul]

Another article says he is diverting quite a few funds from West point college.canthe college do without those funds? I don't think he should be diverting money away from our military college.

Did you mind when Obama diverted healthcare funds without Congressional authorization?

With Congress Deadlocked, White House Diverts Funds to Fight Zika

 

[averageJOE]

So I read today Trump is diverting 3.6 billion bucks away from military projects in order to build his stupid wall which he needs funds to build.The military and Democrats are furious.

Why should our military have to suffer like this? BTW what happened to all your comments that were wrong under my thread asking ng about why the wall isn't being built?

Apparently even though you all said we have the funds and it's now being built apparently you were wrong or Trump would not have to steal funds from our military. It's not being built or he'd quit looking for funds to build it.

When is he gonna quit trying to get funds for the stupid wall?

Diverting $3.6 billion away from $700 Billion is almost nothing. And our military will not suffer, they have more money than they know what to do with. I think we should cut that military budget in half and use it for health care, infrastructure, education, etc.