Trump is the best

[sun rise]

Better tax policy.

So tax cuts for the rich and screw the poor is your idea of better. So goodies for major corporations etc is a positive act. Ok.

- Decent (better than expected) USSC justice nominations.

Better? Not in my universe.

- Presumption of innocence to the accused.

This is not a criminal trial. I go by his visible deeds and words - no jury required.

 

[Twilight Hue]

TBH, diseases give most Presidents trouble... Let's face it few are elected on their ability to deal with that. Trump is doing O.K. with it... At least he seems to take it seriously... One of my biggest beefs with Obama was in his handling of the Swine Flu. Man, it couldn't have been done worse. That, and sending planes of money to Iran, a true WTH moment.

Don't remind them of what actually happened with the Obama regime.

It puts a real rain on lefty's pompous and arrogant parade.

They like to think that they're the bee's knees and superheros of social humanity.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Don't remind them of what actually happened with the Obama regime.

It puts a real rain on lefty's pompous and arrogant parade.

They like to think that they're the bee's knees and superheros of social humanity.

Wow! Project much?
We don’t have the mindless being led by your nose-rings that the right has. We don’t have heroes. We just have better policy and results.
Also, I’ve already responded to @Mindmaster ‘s post with facts and cited references in post #17 on the previous page. Please go back and read it.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Don't remind them of what actually happened with the Obama regime.

It puts a real rain on lefty's pompous and arrogant parade.

They like to think that they're the bee's knees and superheros of social humanity.

No, you can do better than that. Do, indeed, remind us all of what actually happened with the Obama regime. The more gory details the better. The more you can demonstrate failure, economic disaster, increase in the misery of real Americans, the better!

Don't be afraid...spell it out!

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, you can do better than that. Do, indeed, remind us all of what actually happened with the Obama regime. The more gory details the better. The more you can demonstrate failure, economic disaster, increase in the misery of real Americans, the better!

Don't be afraid...spell it out!

Just for starters....


First and foremost legalized mafia style extortion via the healthcare mandate. It's what the mob does when it needs money and offers protection.

Acquisition of private industry to leverage control. Remember Obama Motors?

Obama's moth to flame, fascination/obsession with stimulus policy. Basically it's writers policy to make him look good throughout his tenure as president, rather than actually solving anything in any permanent sense for the overall good. Do nothing, get nothing politics basically.

We all know what Bill Clinton mentioned about Obama's 'pretty picture' economy. But unfortunately the left has very short memories in that regard. Very convenient flaw I would say.

It should be enough to gnaw on for the moment. I got more of those should you be so inclined.

 

[Revoltingest]

Part of what you’re missing is that the President of the United States is our chief international ambassador. And international relations, like any business, are based upon trust and dependability, and yes, even forming friendships during the formation of contracts between the business partners. In this way Trump’s pathological lying and purposeful misinformation campaign, as well as his flagrant racism make dealings between the United States and other countries much less stable than if we have a sane president. These standard transactional dealings that Trump has failed in so miserably, lead both to the loss of billions upon billions of dollars in agreements with our partner nations, as well as a discernible political and even military instability across the face of the earth. Yes I am not exaggerating.
But not to worry because China and Russia have gobbled up all of the agreements that Trump has thrown away. So much for making us a stronger and greater nation.

Nope, not missing that.
The consequences are just less than those on my bad candidate list.

Now let’s look at the original article and the seven points that you claim are just simple personality problems.
The first two points go to my line of thinking above. The second one; corruption, is in fact one of Trump’s campaign promises to drain the swamp. He did not. He in fact deepened the swamp, poisoned it, and filled it with rotting decay. It would take pages upon pages to discuss all the ways in which nepotism and flagrant corruption has infected the executive branch and even the judicial branch of the United States. McConnell is responsible for the parallel corruption in the legislative branch. You believe that Kavanaugh is a decent choice for the SCOTUS, but he already shows that he is not. That is material for a different thread.
The third point of him being a conman cannot be over-emphasized. His only significant achievement in the last 3 1/2 years has been a tax break for the wealthy. It has only benefited a few upper middle class people in the extreme short-term, but not to the extent of the damage that he has done to our economy in the long term, and it furthers the horrific and unsustainable economic situation with our income disparity in the United States, that Reagan started and Bush Junior amplified. To this day and forever more I will be particularly disgusted by how Trump tacked on the benefit to large scale real estate developers such as himself in his tax break for billionaires.
Point number four has definitive affects that you only have to watch the daily news and look out your window in many cases to see. Plus again it relates back to my main point above. This is not just a personality problem it is a policy problem for the United States. You should know better.
#5 is purely a policy point. His campaign of intentional misdirection and reversal of the tiny steps so far taken will cost us more than his four year term to recover from.
Donald Trump's Record on Climate Change
Points number 6 and 7 simply circle back to the corruption cited in point number two above, which in turn leads to international relations and are utter failure over the last four years, and the disgraceful impact it will have upon further international multibillion-dollar dealings and military settlements over the next 20 years at least.
Face it @Revoltingest this isn’t just about personality, it is about policy. At the level of POTUS, personality is policy and policy is personality, whether you know it or not. Trump is a disgrace and an utter failure. He has failed the American people’s trust and respect as well as our international relations, and he must be removed at all costs. He has failed United States business dealings and economy both internally and internationally, promoting civil unrest and international military instability worldwide, and he must be removed at all costs.
.....and this is the brief version of his list of crimes.

EDITED: For typos and other voice-to-text issues.

Some thoughts....
- The tax changes included increases too.
How much revenue change (pre-plague)?
- You're addressing things which have possible rather than actual consequences.
- Do you believe that things you cited are worse than the Vietnam War & other wars?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

First and foremost legalized mafia style extortion via the healthcare mandate. It's what the mob does when it needs money and offers protection.

You know, trying to provide healthcare for ALL Americans has been going on for some time. It does appear to me that there are a lot of Americans (usually ones with money and good access to healthcare) who feel that those who can't afford it really ought to just shut up and die quietly, and not upset the children. I take it that you are one of those. Millions of your fellows suffering is only a problem if it costs you something.

Do I think Obama got it right? No, I don't frankly. But he managed to do more than anybody before him ever did, and don't forget that he had to do that in the face of legislators like you who are not very concerened with suffering and death that isn't their own -- if it costs them a few pennies in taxes.

Acquisition of private industry to leverage control. Remember Obama Motors?

Well, in fact, Politifact, in analysis piece, does seem to think that Obama actually saved the automobile industry in the US. PolitiFact - Did President Obama save the auto industry?

Obama's moth to flame, fascination/obsession with stimulus policy. Basically it's writers policy to make him look good throughout his tenure as president, rather than actually solving anything in any permanent sense for the overall good. Do nothing, get nothing politics basically.

You might not be aware of this, but Congress has a role to play in such matters -- the President can't simply rewrite all the rules. "Solving things" is the business of the whole government -- not just the legislative, judicial or executive branches. That requires the cooperation of lots of people -- including Repubicans who couldn't stand the fact that a black man was POTUS. They would not, just for example, even review his last and very legitimate nomination for a Supreme Court justice.

As a fair person, I personally found that utterly reprehensible. But what's wrong with being reprehensible when you've got a majority, eh? That's what majorities are for!

We all know what Bill Clinton mentioned about Obama's 'pretty picture' economy. But unfortunately the left has very short memories in that regard. Very convenient flaw I would say.

I know that Clinton said something of the kind -- while stumping for his wife -- but I don't know that he actually described what that is, or that he said it was something worse than under a Republican regime. How many people saw themselves in the "pretty picture" under Bush? And if they did, why did they vote Democrat?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

QUOTE="Nowhere Man, post: 6717169, member: 17642"]Just for starters....


First and foremost legalized mafia style extortion via the healthcare mandate. It's what the mob does when it needs money and offers protection.
No. It’s what the federal government does when it needs money to offer services, like taxes for fire departments, and the military, and roads, and schools, and....

Acquisition of private industry to leverage control. Remember Obama Motors? Oooh. A boogeyman without any evidence to back up ...... anything?
I believe that you are referring to this:
As Obama Takes Victory Lap Over Auto Industry Rescue, Here Are The Lessons Of The Bailout

“The decision to bail out General Motors and Chrysler, and aid their financing subsidiaries and suppliers through loan guarantees in 2009 in the teeth of the economic meltdown that gripped world markets, was hotly debated at the time and since. But given the 640,000 auto industry jobs created since then and the record sales by the industry in 2015, the President has room to crow.”

Obama's moth to flame, fascination/obsession with stimulus policy. Basically it's writers policy to make him look good throughout his tenure as president, rather than actually solving anything in any permanent sense for the overall good. Do nothing, get nothing politics basically. WTH?

We all know what Bill Clinton mentioned about Obama's 'pretty picture' economy. But unfortunately the left has very short memories in that regard. Very convenient flaw I would say. Yeah, one off the cuff comment by Bill while trying to campaign for his wife. Truly a watershed moment in American history.

“He referred to Obama's State of the Union address and his claims of economic prosperity as a "pretty picture" most haven't experienced.
"Millions and millions and millions and millions of people look at that pretty picture of America he painted and they cannot find themselves in it to save their lives," he said in Raleigh, N.C.
"Hillary is running for president to put every single American in the picture President Obama painted," he added.
Bill Clinton's riff on the lackluster Obama economy started with a compliment. "I think he's done a better job than he's gotten credit for," said Clinton, who left office in 2001. - Washington Examiner

It should be enough to gnaw on for the moment. I got more of those should you be so inclined.[/QUOTE]No man. No. We’re good.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You know, trying to provide healthcare for ALL Americans has been going on for some time. It does appear to me that there are a lot of Americans (usually ones with money and good access to healthcare) who feel that those who can't afford it really ought to just shut up and die quietly, and not upset the children. I take it that you are one of those. Millions of your fellows suffering is only a problem if it costs you something.

Do I think Obama got it right? No, I don't frankly. But he managed to do more than anybody before him ever did, and don't forget that he had to do that in the face of legislators like you who are not very concerened with suffering and death that isn't their own -- if it costs them a few pennies in taxes.

Well, in fact, Politifact, in analysis piece, does seem to think that Obama actually saved the automobile industry in the US. PolitiFact - Did President Obama save the auto industry?

You might not be aware of this, but Congress has a role to play in such matters -- the President can simply rewrite all the rules. "Solving things" is the business of the whole government -- not just the legislative, judicial or executive branches. That requires the cooperation of lots of people -- including Repubicans who couldn't stand the fact that a black man was POTUS. They would not, just for example, even review his last and very legitimate nomination for a Supreme Court justice.

As a fair person, I personally found that utterly reprehensible. But what's wrong with being reprehensible when you've got a majority, eh? That's what majorities are for!

I know that Clinton said something of the kind -- while stumping for his wife -- but I don't know that he actually described what that is, or that he said it was something worse than under a Republican regime. How many people saw themselves in the "pretty picture" under Bush? And if they did, why did they vote Democrat?

If you think even for a New York moment that these people actually care for you and your health and welfare of your children? All I got to say is you're in for a very rude awakening.

In regards to Obama motors, Obama did not 'save' the auto industry in the least. All what was foremost on his mind is the preservation of government revenue and the benefit of lobbyist backing, particularly as it applies to the universal club rule of, "I rub your back, you rub mine" mentality that is all too well associated with high profile unions these days. The main stellar accomplishment he actually made for the auto industry was giving them complete assurance that they can and will get away with it each and every time endorsing the continuation of irresponsible practices and policies, knowing that each and every time they'll always be bailed out.

The investor's of course are very happy as well as CEOs and executives, with lucrative pay deals that reward more for the competence paid to shareholders than it does for reliability and quality of the end users stemming from jobs all the way to the vehicle and parts purchases. We all know how they benefited from Obama's quest to save the Auto industry. And I'm sure they were quite grateful for it.

To be fair on my end I think everybody does it, including the Republicans, and I'm not going to give a pass just because it's the left that likes to think that it's the better deal. It's obviously not.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If you think even for a New York moment that these people actually care for you and your health and welfare of your children? All I got to say is you're in for a very rude awakening.

No, I'm not, actually. I live in a country with universal, single-payer healthcare. It has always worked for me, and for those I care for. My own partner of more than 25 years spent 8 1/2 months in hospital and rehab, with a year of home care after -- and it cost us nothing. (That of course, is not quite true. We've paid our taxes for precisely that purpose for decades.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Results: terrible tax policy that exacerbates, income inequality, terrible trade policy that hurts American workers, terrible regulatory and environmental policy that worsens climate change, worsened international relations with a wide swath of other countries, including escalation with Iran and increased likelihood of nuclear standoff.

Trust me, I look at results. They havent been great, to say the least.

The extent of those problems is debatable, but to say he's the worst
means looking at more than just what you dislike about him & his
effects. It means looking at the other Presidents, & making a
comparison. For example, there have been some wars.

 

[Revoltingest]

So tax cuts for the rich and screw the poor is your idea of better. So goodies for major corporations etc is a positive act. Ok.

Contrast that with severely limiting tax deductions for mansion expenses.
If you look only at what you dislike, you'll see only a bias confirming
partial picture. Think in terms of total revenue generated.

Better? Not in my universe.

Better than some of those living document types.

This is not a criminal trial. I go by his visible deeds and words - no jury required.

Whuh?
He restored the presumption of innocence in accusations in public universities.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

The extent of those problems is debatable, but to say he's the worst
means looking at more than just what you dislike about him & his
effects. It means looking at the other Presidents, & making a
comparison. For example, there have been some wars.

Not for nothing, but while I was looking for information on the worst presidents I came across a list, and several who were named were the presidents leading up to, but not directly involved in the Civil War. They were named worst presidents simply because of their rhetoric and not because of any actions they took. They were blamed for setting things up, and not taking preventative measures.
Food for thought.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not for nothing, but while I was looking for information on the worst presidents I came across a list, and several who were named were the presidents leading up to, but not directly involved in the Civil War. They were named worst presidents simply because of their rhetoric and not because of any actions they took. They were blamed for setting things up, and not taking preventative measures.
Food for thought.

Aye, this is one sin I attribute to Reagan, ie, setting up Iran as a
long term enemy. The evil of our attack on Iran, killing hundreds
of thousands was just the start.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Wow! Project much?
We don’t have the mindless being led by your nose-rings that the right has. We don’t have heroes. We just have better policy and results.
Also, I’ve already responded to @Mindmaster ‘s post with facts and cited references in post #17 on the previous page. Please go back and read it.

Yeah we can obviously see the better policy and results in real time. How could I have been so blind?

 

[Mindmaster]

Sorry, you want facts to influence people's political reasoning? There's a concept.

The problem is each side of the extremism penis measuring contest have their own set of facts. Far-right and far-left, equally misinformed in my view. There are two parties in the conflict and they really are the rich and poor... If you believe something else you're buying into the Wizard of Oz and need to wake up. This is why various companies go from supporting this or that it's just one giant shell game and there isn't anything under any of the cups. They already took the coin, lol.

Facts don't influence zealots, it just indoctrinates them more into their fanatic beliefs. That's what all this "systematic racism" crap is, the statues, and even the rights idea that these people are terrorists and so on. I don't think they're terrorists, just stupid.

 

[Left Coast]

The extent of those problems is debatable, but to say he's the worst
means looking at more than just what you dislike about him & his
effects. It means looking at the other Presidents, & making a
comparison. For example, there have been some wars.

"He's terrible, look at what a terrible President he's been."

"Ok well he might be a terrible person but you have to look at the results he's gotten."

"Um okay, here are the results, they're terrible."

"Well okay but you have to compare him with other Presidents."



Your motivated reasoning is a little exhausting.

 

[Left Coast]

The problem is each side of the extremism penis measuring contest have their own set of facts. Far-right and far-left, equally misinformed in my view. There are two parties in the conflict and they really are the rich and poor... If you believe something else you're buying into the Wizard of Oz and need to wake up. This is why various companies go from supporting this or that it's just one giant shell game and there isn't anything under any of the cups. They already took the coin, lol.

Facts don't influence zealots, it just indoctrinates them more into their fanatic beliefs. That's what all this "systematic racism" crap is, the statues, and even the rights idea that these people are terrorists and so on. I don't think they're terrorists, just stupid.

If you don't think systemic racism exists, you're living in an alternate reality, which actually speaks to your point in a way. But that's a topic for a different thread.

 

[Mindmaster]

Don't remind them of what actually happened with the Obama regime.

It puts a real rain on lefty's pompous and arrogant parade.

They like to think that they're the bee's knees and superheros of social humanity.

Attacking Obama seems on the level of criticizing Jesus to the left, so that tells you what is wrong immediately. All Presidents screw up a bit somewhere, it's a complicated job. But, mailing money to the mother of most terror incidents defies common sense.

Before anyone gets out of hand, Obama is no Lincoln or George Washington. He's not even a Thomas Jefferson. There are tons of Presidents who raised the vibration in history to a much greater scale. Obama fomented much of what's going on with the riot/protest silliness and so on, and incidents were going on even under his watch. He could have stood firm, but nope he turned a blind eye. That's Obama's legacy, not Trump's. Trump is mostly trying to pick up after this garbage was thrown about everywhere. Can't blame him for the madness, or really even blame him for the difficulty of resolving it. This situation requires a Lincoln-type character to resolve, and neither of the Presidential options is even close to that IMHO, though I feel Biden is even WORSE than Trump. He's just a meat puppet and the crazies will be pulling his strings from behind. Sadly, I think there are decent people in the Democratic party that would do a great job and I'd support them, but only the crazies are getting any play. It doesn't give me much choice at the ballot box.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Attacking Obama seems on the level of criticizing Jesus to the left, so that tells you what is wrong immediately. All Presidents screw up a bit somewhere, it's a complicated job. But, mailing money to the mother of most terror incidents defies common sense.

Before anyone gets out of hand, Obama is no Lincoln or George Washington. He's not even a Thomas Jefferson. There are tons of Presidents who raised the vibration in history to a much greater scale. Obama fomented much of what's going on with the riot/protest silliness and so on, and incidents were going on even under his watch. He could have stood firm, but nope he turned a blind eye. That's Obama's legacy, not Trump's. Trump is mostly trying to pick up after this garbage was thrown about everywhere. Can't blame him for the madness, or really even blame him for the difficulty of resolving it. This situation requires a Lincoln-type character to resolve, and neither of the Presidential options is even close to that IMHO, though I feel Biden is even WORSE than Trump. He's just a meat puppet and the crazies will be pulling his strings from behind. Sadly, I think there are decent people in the Democratic party that would do a great job and I'd support them, but only the crazies are getting any play. It doesn't give me much choice at the ballot box.

I think I'm going to go the late George Carlin route, and just sit this election out.

I was really hoping Colin Powell would run for president but now even Colin Powell is 'backing' Biden from what I understand. That is actually what is throwing me for a loop here as I greatly respect the man.

Now there is another man I respect, namely John Bolton who is just as tough, if not more tough than Trump who is also a jumpship politician that paints a sordid tale of modern-day politicking.

In the end to paraphrase George Collins political views is that I don't give a rat's *** if the country kills itself now. I'm just going to sit on the side and stay a spectator from this point on as none of us are actually members of the 'club'.