SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Where is the injustice? MAGA only see what Trump says, so I don't really care what they have to say about it.
Let's get real. What was unjust about Trump's trial and his treatment?
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Trump Now Banned by Law From Entering 37 Countries
- Thread starter Wandering Monk
- Start date
Let's get real. What was unjust about Trump's trial and his treatment?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
The difference is that I don't criticize what you say. You do criticize what I say.
Tolerance is something I have among my principles.
Yeah, and I have an understanding of cultural relativism.
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Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
And these will be addressed in the appeal process. The system works - let it.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
That was the testimony. The jury accepted it as proven.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
People see Democrats for what they are now.
The more vitriol they spew from their mouths and actions, the better it will be for Trump.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
As I recall, when the Judge read his instructions to the jury -- the instructions that informed them what it would take to find him guilty -- Trump was in the room. They heard what he heard -- all at the same time. And you think that somehow, all 12 of them understood, and Trump somehow went away mystified?
Look, the first crime -- which might have been a misdemeanour -- was falsifying corporate financial documents. Under New York law, falsification of business records is a crime when the records are altered with an intent to defraud. To turn that into a felony, prosecutors must also show that the offender intended to "commit another crime" or "aid or conceal" another crime when falsifying records.
In Trump's case, prosecutors said that other crime was a violation of a New York election law that makes it illegal for "any two or more persons" to "conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means," as Justice Juan Merchan explained in his instructions to the jury. That law, as you well know by now, is Section 17-152 — that forbids conspiracies “to promote or prevent” a person’s election “by unlawful means.”
The Judge made sure that the jury understood that they had to be unanimous that Trump et al conspired to bread Section 17-152. No question about that -- so that is what makes the falsifying of corporate records a felony.
The only thing left to the jury was the question of what exactly those "unlawful means" were in this case. Prosecutors put forth three areas that they could consider: a violation of federal campaign finance laws, falsification of other business records or a violation of tax laws. But those were only the means by which the second law was broken, and each juror could decide which of those "means" made sense to them in the context of the conspiracy to break Section 17-152.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
But not the convicted felon. He's still the Golden Boy. LOL
How about Trump's vitriol? That's all cool though, right?
You get what you give.
In what way? Did they not read him his rights? Did he not have legal council? Was he not tried by a Jury of his peers? What right was he denied?
He got due process. He got more due process than many defendants get. He got the dewiest of due process.
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And I think, if you'd actually look (I know, wishful thinking) you'd know that we're seeing Republicans for what they are now. Tell us, how many vicious Democrats are doxing the participants in Hunter Biden's trial?
Michael Cohen's Family Doxed.
'The wife and children of Michael Cohen were doxxed by an individual accusing Cohen of having “betrayed Trump,” according to a report. The phone numbers and addresses were posted early Monday on a site previously associated with attempts to target people connected to Trump’s legal problems...
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Oh for the shame if it all!
Of course, Democrats would never ever do such things like doxing people they don't like.
Prison Time for Democrat's 'Vicious' Doxxing of Republicans | Frontpage Mag
A Democrat U.S. Senate staffer who doxxed Republican senators during the nasty confirmation battle over Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, committing what
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Democrat who dox should go to jail. Will you say the same of Republicans?Oh for the shame if it all!
Of course, Democrats would never ever do such things like doxing people they don't like.
Prison Time for Democrat's 'Vicious' Doxxing of Republicans | Frontpage Mag
A Democrat U.S. Senate staffer who doxxed Republican senators during the nasty confirmation battle over Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, committing whatwww.frontpagemag.com
You had to go back 5 years, did you? Do you know how many threats are being aimed by Trump supporters all over the Excited States these days? Trust me, they're not as rare as you would dearly love to think.Oh for the shame if it all!
Of course, Democrats would never ever do such things like doxing people they don't like.
Prison Time for Democrat's 'Vicious' Doxxing of Republicans | Frontpage Mag
A Democrat U.S. Senate staffer who doxxed Republican senators during the nasty confirmation battle over Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, committing what
And I agree. Jail time was the right decision, and will always be the right decision -- and I don't give a hoot which party the offender belongs. to.
I asked, "Is it possible for Trump to be convicted of a crime fairly? Is there any setting hypothetical or otherwise, where a jury gives Trump a guilty verdict and it is fair in your estimation?" That's a pretty skimpy answer.
You don't have to say it. His rights were not violated in this trial to anybody's knowledge, although an appellate court might find otherwise. If they do, it won't be for the reasons you cite - Trump doesn't know what second crimes were in the various juror's minds. The fact that you are so zealously promoting that as an objection even after having it explained to you why it's not a valid objection tells me that you don't really care about the law. You care about Trump.
You have a problem with that? You must really be upset about Trump promising to seek revenge on Biden.
You think Merchan should have recused himself for participating in the political process? Maybe Merchan voted for Biden as well. Is that also grounds for recusal in your mind?
You have no right to that information. Would you be content if the jurors were all polled and gave their answers? Probably not.
Trump was a danger to judges, jurors, witnesses, and their families. Trump wanted Cohen gagged, but there was no reason for that. Cohen was only mocking and ridiculing Trump, not endangering him.
What's your objection there? Do you think that Trump wanting to campaign for president means that the trials should be delayed? If so, why? This is Trump's doing. If Trump had wanted this matter concluded in 2023, he could have asked for a speedy trial. Instead, he delayed things for as long as he could, which turned out to be the spring of an election year.
No, you were told that prosecutors didn't think they had winnable cases.
Yes, the party of law and order.
And they can see that the Republicans are the opposite. Look at how outraged they are at Trump's conviction. Trump had a fair trial and was convicted by a jury of ordinary citizens acceptable to the prosecution. But Republicans ranging from Trump to congressional Republicans to people like you and Clizby simply won't accept the result, just like with the election. That's what Republicans are now.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No. Not law and order. A party prone to using lawfare to its advantage. That's exactly what Democrats are now.
McBell
Unbound
prove it.
Some nonsense to avoid:
- Myth: No one knows what Trump was charged with.
- Myth: Prosecutors stretched the law to convert a misdemeanor into a felony.
- Myth: The prosecution didn’t tell Trump what he was charged with until closing argument, a violation of due process.
- Myth: It was improper for a state prosecutor to charge a federal offense.
- Myth: Trump would not have been charged for a mere bookkeeping error if his name were anything other than Donald J. Trump.
- Myth: There is nothing illegal about paying hush money, and famous people do it all the time.
- Myth: The charges were filed after lengthy delay to interfere with Trump’s campaign for president.
- Myth: Justice Juan Merchan was biased because of his $35 financial contribution to Joe Biden and because of his daughter’s work as a democratic political consultant.
- Myth: Juan Merchan is a judge on the New York County Supreme Court.
- Myth: Justice Juan Merchan violated Trump’s rights to defend himself by refusing to permit him to call an expert witness.
- Myth: Justice Merchan violated Trump’s First Amendment rights to free speech and to testify in his own defense by imposing a gag order in the case.
- Myth: The U.S. Supreme Court may intervene and overturn Trump’s conviction before the his sentencing on July 11, which is four days before the GOP convention.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'll wait and see what the appellate system makes of it.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Fundies have already been trained to accept things without evidence. They are perfect marks for a guy like Trump.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Yes, law and order. That's what due process is all about. Trump got his. We're now talking about it. You guys remember law and order, don't you?
Which Democrats are you claiming are using "lawfare?"
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You said you were going to wait and see what the verdict is.
Just keep kicking that can down the road though. I'm sure there's a rainbow at the end somewhere.