Trump Paranoia Official?

[Terrywoodenpic]

Today on a BBC report, a Muslim family were prevented flying to Disneyland because they were Muslim by American officials.

On the same news An American Orchestra cancelled their tour of Europe because of the Terrorist danger.
The paranoia seems to be taking hold.

It is far more dangerous to for Americans to say at home than travel to Europe.
And I can not see a threat in a British Imam and his family going to Disneyland.

It seems to be a very primitive fear of foreigners, stirred up by a politician who should know better.

 

[Altfish]

In football terms, here is the latest score...

Terrorists 5 USA 0

Manager, Trump said "We have to bolster our defence, more guns"

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

In football terms, here is the latest score...

Terrorists 5 USA 0

Manager, Trump said "We have to bolster our defence, more guns"

Terrorist 5 what?

 

[Godobeyer]

Terrorist 5 what?

As I understand if I am wrong he should correct me, he meant that terrorists (ISIS) are succeed to make generalizing to all Muslims are suspected and mistreated.

 

[Revoltingest]

Today on a BBC report, a Muslim family were prevented flying to Disneyland because they were Muslim by American officials.

On the same news An American Orchestra cancelled their tour of Europe because of the Terrorist danger.
The paranoia seems to be taking hold.

It is far more dangerous to for Americans to say at home than travel to Europe.
And I can not see a threat in a British Imam and his family going to Disneyland.

It seems to be a very primitive fear of foreigners, stirred up by a politician who should know better.

If Americastanian officials are preventing Muslims from going to Disneyland, this is arguably more Obama's responsibility than Trump's.
Besides, someone did the family an unintentional favor.
Have you been there lately?

Have any links about the Disney denial?

 

[Revoltingest]

As I understand if I am wrong he should correct me, he meant that terrorists (ISIS) are succeed to make generalizing to all Muslims are suspected and mistreated.

I wonder to what extent the media are hyping anti-Muslim sentiment because it's a profitable bandwagon.
It also serves political agendas to exacerbate Trump's boogeyman status.
Where I live, I've seen no increase in problems.....& problems are far & few between.
(And SE MI is chock full of Muslims & Chaldeans....more so than anywhere else.)
It was noticeably worse right after 9/11.
But if things are worse, it wouldn't be any current or would-be politician causing the trouble.
It would be the recent mass attacks in France & California.

 

[Altfish]

As I understand if I am wrong he should correct me, he meant that terrorists (ISIS) are succeed to make generalizing to all Muslims are suspected and mistreated.

Spot on

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If Americastanian officials are preventing Muslims from going to Disneyland, this is arguably more Obama's responsibility than Trump's.
Besides, someone did the family an unintentional favor.
Have you been there lately?

Have any links about the Disney denial?

Lots of coverage online... Prime minister now involved....

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...muslim-family-flight-disneyland-david-cameron

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I wonder to what extent the media are hyping anti-Muslim sentiment because it's a profitable bandwagon.
It also serves political agendas to exacerbate Trump's boogeyman status.
Where I live, I've seen no increase in problems.....& problems are far & few between.
(And SE MI is chock full of Muslims & Chaldeans....more so than anywhere else.)
It was noticeably worse right after 9/11.
But if things are worse, it wouldn't be any current or would-be politician causing the trouble.
It would be the recent mass attacks in France & California.

The attack in California was by American citizens, one by marriage.

We do not classify any one as chaldeans in the UK. though I know it refers to Biblical Mesopotamia.

What was worse after 9/11?

 

[Revoltingest]

Lots of coverage online... Prime minister now involved....

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...muslim-family-flight-disneyland-david-cameron

Pbbbbtttt!
The article is all smoke & mirrors, with no real fact other than federal denial of flying.
We don't know what the reason is.
I'd say this speaks less to Trump's shenanigans, & more to governmental security theater & secrecy without due process.

 

[Revoltingest]

The attack in California was by American citizens, one by marriage.

Citizenry wasn't the issue.....their being Muslim was.

We do not classify any one as chaldeans in the UK. though I know it refers to Biblical Mesopotamia.

Chaldeans are a large (mostly or all Xian) immigrant group here.
This is how they describe themselves to us.
Tis not a government classification that I know of.
They're often perceived by outsiders as "Arabs" & Muslim, so they've no doubt endured some consequent discomfort.

What was worse after 9/11?

Anti-Arab/Muslim sentiment.
Things are better now than then....as I see it anyway, so I distrust media portrayals which conflict with personal experience.
They can at times distort things, ya know.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Obviously since my USA conducts a lot of surveillance our government is going to take actions that the general population doesn't understand, and it doesn't expect to have to say why. We have entrusted, through acts of congress, the safety of the country to secret decisions by trusted officials. I feel like its better to accept dangerous situations instead, but that is not what we are doing. Instead we are carefully preventing anyone who seems they may potentially be involved in a plot. So refusing visas at the last minute should be expected.

I think that these customers who have been turned away should not be surprised. They should be reimbursed for their tickets, however. I would be angry about that, too.

Additionally its two-faced of Cameron to make a fuss over it. He's intimately involved and partially responsible for the surveillance and secret decision-making process. The Guardian has somehow overlooked that.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Citizenry wasn't the issue.....their being Muslim was.

.

Why was the shooting worse because it was done by Muslims?
On the scale of mass shootings in America it was a fairly minor and isolated incident.
There seems to be an extra dimension of a Bogyman factor.....

Was religion of the perpetrators a factor in any of the many other mass shootings this year, do we even know what all their religions were.?

Do Americans fear Muslims?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Citizenry wasn't the issue.....their being Muslim was.

.

Why was the shooting worse because it was done by Muslims?
On the scale of mass shootings in America it was a fairly minor and isolated incident.
There seems to be an extra dimension of a Bogyman factor.....

Was religion of the perpetrators a factor in any of the many other mass shootings this year, do we even know what all their religions were.?

Do Americans fear Muslims?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Obviously since my USA conducts a lot of surveillance our government is going to take actions that the general population doesn't understand, and it doesn't expect to have to say why. We have entrusted, through acts of congress, the safety of the country to secret decisions by trusted officials. I feel like its better to accept dangerous situations instead, but that is not what we are doing. Instead we are carefully preventing anyone who seems they may potentially be involved in a plot. So refusing visas at the last minute should be expected.

I think that these customers who have been turned away should not be surprised. They should be reimbursed for their tickets, however. I would be angry about that, too.

Additionally its two-faced of Cameron to make a fuss over it. He's intimately involved and partially responsible for the surveillance and secret decision-making process. The Guardian has somehow overlooked that.

The Guardian did not cover the influence of Arab countries either... it was not part of the context of the incident. Nor was British security, or the part a prime ministers play, as head of security.

The Security services work under proscribed rules of engagement. these are necessarily secret from the general public. However they are known and set by our representatives in Government. this is the way it should be under parliamentary democracy.
No system used by any country in the world publishes these things.

To grant visas then revoke them at the last minute smacks of incompetence.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why was the shooting worse because it was done by Muslims?

The issue here isn't whether one shooting is "worse" than another,
but rather the consequences because the shooters were Muslims.
We want to avoid any anti-Muslim hysteria.

On the scale of mass shootings in America it was a fairly minor and isolated incident.

No, this was a biggie because of so many victims.

There seems to be an extra dimension of a Bogyman factor.....

Exactly!

Was religion of the perpetrators a factor in any of the many other mass shootings this year, do we even know what all their religions were.?

I believe it was a factor.
While the vast majority of Muslims here are peaceful & integrated,
their religion is involved....perhaps a trigger, motivator, or exacerbating factor....but a factor nonetheless.
We see this with other religions too, eg, Xians who kill someone undergoing an exorcism.
So while I've no fear of Muslims, I cast a wary eye on any faith which has any approval of smiting therein.

Do Americans fear Muslims?

I can't speak for all.
I don't.
But remember that I'm a heathen.....Muslims, Xians, Jews....they all influence government in ways which make me bristle.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

My local town has a Muslim mayor. Probably because the Muslim population is so large.
If we feared Muslims we would probably stay at home and lock the doors.
Equally many of the Doctors consultants and staff of the Hospital I visit are Muslim.
We live in a world where there is a good chance the next person that you meet will be a Muslim.
I have not yet met a Muslim who has been the least bit scary.

This is far from saying some of the young have not been radicalized, they have. and there have been some outrages over the past few years. However we have few politicians stupid enough to fan the flames in the way Trump has.
If you shout often and hard enough your greatest fears are likely to be fulfilled.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have not yet met a Muslim who has been the least bit scary.

Janet Jackson?
Doctor Oz?

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Guardian did not cover the influence of Arab countries either... it was not part of the context of the incident. Nor was British security, or the part a prime ministers play, as head of security.

The Security services work under proscribed rules of engagement. these are necessarily secret from the general public. However they are known and set by our representatives in Government. this is the way it should be under parliamentary democracy.
No system used by any country in the world publishes these things.

I'm not trying to change the subject, but privacy is a two way street. If the govt. and security service has privacy then so should citizens. Since that isn't the case, then the govt. should expose all of its actions and decisions. Otherwise the govt. is not representative for much longer, so...no their actions are not necessarily secret any more. They are now necessarily public despite the danger to the public. Their argument is that if we have nothing to hide, then we don't need privacy. Well, then the same is true of the security services. Since they know everything they don't need secrecy and can just tell us who is guilty. Give the public back its privacy and then you will be right. Then secrecy is justified..., but right now security services should not do anything in secret or be allowed privacy.

To grant visas then revoke them at the last minute smacks of incompetence.

That presumes too much. What better way to study suspects than to grant them a visa, so that we can put them at ease? Then we can see what they do and whom they speak with right up to the moment we refuse to let them onto the plane? Its not incompetence if it helps to save lives.

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's consider who is ultimately behind whatever policies (both secret & obvious) of Homeland Security.
From....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Homeland_Security
....we see that the Secretary of Homeland Security is in the President's Cabinet.
And from.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_States
....we see that the prez can fire them at will.
So nothing happens without Obama's tacit or overt approval.

I don't know whether excluding this Muslim family is something worthwhile or security theater.
Such is the nature of secret operations.
But once again, Obama is more responsible (or culpable) than Trump.