Trump to Withdraw from Iran Nuclear Deal

[Shad]

See my last post, as the Iran agreement was not a treaty.

Irrelevant. You used what is nothing more than an EO by a single Potus as representative of all of the US while knowing exactly what it is and what Trumps own EO actually is. All Trump did was bring to light something that should be obvious to anyone. An EO should carry no expectation of existing as policy once the potus that signed it is no longer in office.

At least if you're going to stoop low enough so as to throw insults around, maybe it's best to get your facts straight first.

I know exactly what it is. My use of language slipped, nothing more.

 

[esmith]

It was not a treaty, therefore it didn't need ratification. However, I do agree that Congress should have been involved and should have voted, much like Congress should have been involved and voted on Trump's negating the agreement. How come you didn't complain about the latter?

How about you understanding what an Executive Order is.

 

[Phantasman]

Of course there is. Otherwise we could literally look into any of their weapons programs or other initiatives without any warning. Something that would be guaranteed to sink the deal. You cannot just move a nuclear installation capable of making weapons grade material without signs of it being there.

Yours is an argument rooted in ignorance.



As do we. On the other hand that is why the deal called for a regime of inspectors. Not to mention the fact that we still watch Iran like a hawk using all the traditional methods.

Without the deal what is improved? Better a deal that, at the very least, gives us a better opportunity to monitor them and know when they are violating the deal. Without the deal, we simply have less access.

I'm sure glad you aren't running the country. Trump has verified information that comes from the dozens of CIA agents that went to Israel last week to check the "facts". The MSM pundits don't. It's a choice who you want to listen to. And MSM has a bad record, IMO. It's never about "facts". It's always about hating Trump.

 

[Mister Emu]

Even more, Iran has no reason to enter into another deal because the US will go back on its word.

The U.S. didn't give its word, it was one branch in the face of bipartisan opposition. As I noted in a previous post, we have a representative government with checks and balances. One man can't force an obligation on the country, and anyone who thought he could was not in their right mind.

There is no reason for inspectors to have to wait 24 days to inspect unless there is something that has to be done before an inspection.

They could delay it for longer. First Iran has to be notified that there are concerns at a site; Iran is then allowed to respond and attempt to clarify. Only after this process can the IAEA request access and the 24 day period kicks in. How long does Iran have to respond? It isn't specified. How long will it take the IAEA to consider the response? It isn't specified.

But either way there would be tell-tale signs.

"A 24-day adjudicated timeline reduces detection probabilities exactly where the system is weakest: detecting undeclared facilities and materials,"
"David Albright, the president of the Institute for Science and International Security and a former weapons inspector in Iraq, also said that three weeks might be ample time for the Iranians to dispose of any evidence of prohibited nuclear work."
"When the atomic energy agency sought to inspect the Kalaye Electric Company site in Iran in 2003 to check whether the Iranians were using centrifuges that they had obtained from Pakistan, the Iranians kept inspectors at bay while they spent weeks removing the equipment and renovating the building where it had been kept... Certain parts of the installation were renovated, leaving no trace of enrichment activities that had taken place"
Verification Process in Iran Deal Is Questioned by Some Experts

You don't know that.

"What is a more relevant fear would be that in year 13, 14, 15, they have advanced centrifuges that can enrich uranium fairly rapidly, and at that point the breakout times would have shrunk almost down to zero."
Care to guess who said that?

 

[idav]

Thank you all for your considerable thoughts. Obviously, there is nothing left for me to discuss as I am hopelessly deluded on the particulars of the topic, mislead by forces beyond my control, unwilling to look at facts, and am just plain gloating over seeing another Obama era edifice crumble into the dust. No doubt there are racist reasons behind that glee too.

Again, thanks so much, to so many posters, for setting me straight about how fabulous a deal this has been all along.

No no your right, doing nothing is of course much more productive and useful.

 

[Phantasman]

I'm sure those 20 Iranian missiles fired into Israel tonight were part of the gift Obama gave Iran in cash payments.

We are/were suckers. The centrifuges will continue to spin and ballistic missiles made. As Iran showed within hours, the American flags have always been there to burn. Hidden, just like their intentions.

 

[idav]

I'm sure those 20 Iranian missiles fired into Israel tonight were part of the gift Obama gave Iran in cash payments.

We are/were suckers. The centrifuges will continue to spin and ballistic missiles made. As Iran showed within hours, the American flags have always been there to burn. Hidden, just like their intentions.

You want to blame Obama for war in the Middle East, you can blame Obama for gravity while your at it.

 

[tytlyf]

I'm sure glad you aren't running the country. Trump has verified information that comes from the dozens of CIA agents that went to Israel last week to check the "facts". The MSM pundits don't. It's a choice who you want to listen to. And MSM has a bad record, IMO. It's never about "facts". It's always about hating Trump.

Are you talking about the Bibi secret intelligence on Iran released last week? The world knew that information 10 years ago.

 

[metis]

How about you understanding what an Executive Order is.

Since I taught poli sci for roughly 25 years, I pretty much know what it is. So, instead of posting snarky nonsense, why not actually add something to the discussion.

Here, maybe this can help you: Executive order - Wikipedia

 

[metis]

I'm sure those 20 Iranian missiles fired into Israel tonight were part of the gift Obama gave Iran in cash payments.

We had to turn that money over to the Iranians per a ruling under international law since it was their money and was being held by us due to the takeover by Ayatollah Khomeini back in 1980.

 

[LuisDantas]

At this point I can' help but wonder how come Iran trusted the USA even that much.

It really is disgusting.

 

[esmith]

Since I taught poli sci for roughly 25 years, I pretty much know what it is. So, instead of posting snarky nonsense, why not actually add something to the discussion.

Here, maybe this can help you: Executive order - Wikipedia

Well I guess I should have said Executive authority vice Executive Order my mistake. But you seem to have a problem with Executive authority when you implied that Congress should have a say in President Trump negating Obama's Iran deal when Congress didn't have a say in Obama signing the deal.
Oh did you by any change teach poli sci using your opinions on the subject.

 

[Koldo]

Trump Tells [French President] Macron the U.S. Will Withdraw From Iran Nuclear Deal

I suspect Trump is at least in part -- and perhaps more than merely in part -- motivated by a fierce yet petty desire to spite Obama, who forged the deal.

But why I would think a moron incapable of understanding the deal in the first place would yet once again do something merely to spite Obama, and not for any rational reasons, is utterly beyond me. Call it a mere hunch.

Comments?

Most of you know that I lean to the left, but...
Let's be honest here...
It wasn't that great of a deal to begin with.
Iran can't be forced to comply to its own end in the bargain, so, yeah...
Nothing of value was lost here.

 

[metis]

"A 24-day adjudicated timeline reduces detection probabilities exactly where the system is weakest: detecting undeclared facilities and materials,"...

Radiation leaves traces that cannot be erased.

Also, just a reminder that numerous former IDF and Mossad leaders have signed a letter saying we should still adhere to the agreement and one of them was former Israeli P.M. Ehud Barak who also was a war hero.

 

[metis]

Oh did you by any change teach poli sci using your opinions on the subject.

Ya know, your cheap shots are just so pathetic, but I'll answer your question anyway.

At the end of each semester, I had the students fill out confidential surveys, and one of the questions I asked was what political affiliation, if any, did they think I had? The results for years came back a relatively even split between Democratic, Republican, and Don't Know. Then most of the time they'd ask me which is the correct answer, and I told them that I couldn't divulge that because of my need to keep objectivity.

BTW, I previously posted here that I felt that Obama also should have gotten Congressional approval, so your accusation of partisanship on my part that you're accusing me of seems to be more a matter of your own "projection".

 

[Revoltingest]

Most of you know that I lean to the left, but...
Let's be honest here...
It wasn't that great of a deal to begin with.
Iran can't be forced to comply to its own end in the bargain, so, yeah...
Nothing of value was lost here.

What's being lost is the uneasy peace.
I sense war drums beating in Americastan & Israelistan.
Iran has good reason to be nervous, & seek fell weapons,
given our atrociously violent behavior towards them.

 

[Koldo]

What's being lost is the uneasy peace.
I sense war drums beating in Americastan & Israelistan.
Iran has good reason to be nervous, & seek fell weapons,
given our atrociously violent behavior towards them.

A false sense of peace, if I may say.
It was like "Let's pretend Iran is not doing anything hidden from our sight.".
Nevertheless, I don't think any sort of war is about to start just because of this deal being broken, as long as politicians don't act stupid... Well... We are screwed, aren't we ?

 

[columbus]

Have you forgotten the make-up of Congress back then? Remember the "Party of No"? Remember how they voted against some their own previous proposals to reflect McConnell's saying that their #1 objective was to try and stop Obama from being reelected?

Seriously, and to think the ******** are STILL in power. It's enough to get a grown man to weep.

@Shad
@Phantasman
@ all other supporters of Trump's withdrawal

There are reasons for my common harping on the history between Iran and the USA.
From toppling their democracy to launching a devastating invasion to putting them on the Axis of Evil hitlist and start to invade it, the USA has given Iran VERY good reasons to get a nuclear deterrent.
What the deal, such as it was, did was give the USA about 10 years to demonstrate that it was no longer the violent and rapacious sworn enemy that WE have thoroughly demonstrated ourselves to be. Then Iran would not have such a need to defend itself from us!
That is the only true path to peace, and Trump just jumped the rails.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

A false sense of peace, if I may say.
It was like "Let's pretend Iran is not doing anything hidden from our sight.".
Nevertheless, I don't think any sort of war is about to start just because of this deal being broken, as long as politicians don't act stupid... Well... We are screwed, aren't we ?

A false peace beats open conflict.
I recall that Israel wanted to attack Iran directly, but failed to get Obama's support.
I don't trust Trump to show the same restraint.
If we were serious & sincere about ridding the mid-east of nukes, we should start with Israel.

 

[YmirGF]

@Shad
@Phantasman
@ all other supporters of Trump's withdrawal

There are reasons for my common harping on the history between Iran and the USA.
From toppling their democracy to launching a devastating invasion to putting them on the Axis of Evil hitlist and start to invade it, the USA has given Iran VERY good reasons to get a nuclear deterrent.
What the deal, such as it was, did was give the USA about 10 years to demonstrate that it was no longer the violent and rapacious sworn enemy that WE have thoroughly demonstrated ourselves to be. Then Iran would not have such a need to defend itself from us!
That is the only true path to peace, and Trump just jumped the rails.
Tom

I do hear what you are saying, Tom, but aren't you forgetting that Iran has repeatedly claimed that it has no nuclear ambitions and that they were not developing nuclear weapons? They have steadfastly claimed to be enriching uranium for non-military uses. Nuclear power plants and medical equipment are not particularly effective tools to protect one from a hostile foreign power.