Trump's America: Hispanic community gonna learn today!

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Still if immigration was stricter, that murder may not have happened.

Stricter how? Just what would you change?

 

[metis]

Still if immigration was stricter, that murder may not have happened.

Except that the crime rate will illegal aliens is significantly lower than with U.S. citizens.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That's because Americans need to keep up the racial, sexual, ethnic, and religious bigotry to keep from having to recognize their real social bias, which is economic. The big delusion in this country is that we are "free and equal in the land of opportunity" when we HAVE NEVER BEEN. The real bias in this country is based on wealth, and it always has been. But for some reason Americans just will not admit to it. So we have to keep blaming the destruction that our greed-based culture does to itself and to it's own on something else. And that something else is the scapegoating of anyone that's poorer and less powerful than we are. Until we face our cultural obsession with the legitimization of greed in this country, we will never stop looking for scapegoats to blame the damage on.

So by saying what is REAL it therefore denotes what I and others experience aren’t? We deal with a conglomerate of issues here in the states.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Still if immigration was stricter, that murder may not have happened.

Right because meth heads don’t kill people as well. She could have died at the hands of a white guy strung out on meth. It just so happens it was this guy.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Pretty sure all murder is illegal.

He may be thinking self-defense.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This is common behavior in the comments sections. The people in there use one story to classify an entire people. You could do the same with any race. all white people are racist scumbags because I saw one story about the clan burning a cross and lynching black people.

Or with any story that has a negative outcome from a person of a particular race. If only a news organization or group would get the IP addresses, went to the commentator's residence. and put them on blast. Hello did you say X racist comment on this website? We here at blah news want to know if you feel like you represent the nation when you make comments like these.

I'm sure they might regret ever posting what ever they said. Not because it was wrong, but because someone is calling them out in the real world for it.

Need to get Mike Rappaport's mad shame game skills on these people or Chris D'Elia.

The point is internet anonymity is the release people with this mindset needs to express themselves. These aren’t just a few people, I firmly believe it’s everyday people we socialize with. If I, a professional, can spend some time on the Internet forums commenting imagine doctors, lawyers, police.

 

[Stevicus]

Yup! Just what the white community needs to continue pointing the finger and say 'See? We told you so! That's just the way they are!' What is 'the way they are'? I can tell you this: there is an image of the Mexican hard wired way back in the brains of White America about the Mexican, and that image is of a 'dirty Mexican'. Where did this image originate, and why is it so powerful? Well, we all know the famous battle cry: 'Remember The Alamo!' IOW, White America will NEVER forget what they think happened there. Americans lost that battle and many were killed. White America just could not understand how they lost The Alamo to Mexico. 'Well', they reasoned; "the only way them thar Messicans could'a won is by some dirty underhanded tricks, that we good, upstanding God-fearin' 'merican folk wouldn't know about. Why, them's just a bunch'a lousy no-good dirty Messicans!"* So this image of a dirty under-handed shifty and lazy so and so who is always up to something (like maybe sneaking across the border to get back into his own stolen country) is what has come down the pike to modern America, and has become the scapegoat for Whites, who see the Mexican as a threat to their well being and peace of mind for various reasons. The Mexicano is not just seen as practicing an underhanded game, but is hated for their killing of the American soldiers at The Alamo. But the blame is all on the Americans. When Texas was still a Mexican territory with the Mexican flag flying over it, Mexico wanted immigrants to populate the territory from around the world. They had an international vision for Texas. Americans were also welcome, but only under the condition that no slaves were to be brought. The Americans 'agreed', winking their eyes, and brought their slaves anyway. Fact is that America wanted Texas to expand slavery, as well as the entire SouthWest for that purpose. The Battle of the Alamo was fought over slavery. The Mexican American War was deliberately instigated by America against Mexico for the purpose of acquiring SouthWest lands in a 'just' war. As a result, the former US Mexican border 90 miles to the north of the current Rio Grand border at the River Nueces was moved to its present location. Then American ambassadors confronted President Santayana with a bribe. 'Take this money and give us the SouthWest or we invade Mexico.' Santayana had no choice, but looked like a traitor to the Mexican people. This was the Gadsden Purchase of Utah, Arizona, Nevada, a couple other states. All in all, the US stole, under the guise of legitimate purchase, over 1/3 of Mexico's northern territories, over which the Mexican flag flew. Overnight, 100,000 Mexican nationals lost their land to which they held legitimate title deeds from the Mexican government, deeds which the US refused to accept as legitimate under the new Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo**.

America is living on stolen land. No wonder they want the Mexican to go away. They're pointing out where the real dirt is hidden. Dirty Mexican? Or is it dirty gringo? Rich, Powerful America can just build a wall and bulldoze them back across the fake border, and won't be able to hear the cries of protest from the other side. White America is still punishing the 'dirty' Mexican in every way possible on both sides of the border for winning the battle of the Alamo that America was supposed to win.

*In the real life story of Gregorio Cortez, who was a Mexican on the run for killing a local sheriff in retribution for killing his brother, one of the posse members testified in court that the reason Cortez was so difficult to capture was that he rode his horse in "figure 8's". The figure 8 is associated with Satan. IOW, the implication is that Cortez was possessed of the Devil, who aided him in his elusive tactics. Of course, Mexicans, like Blacks, being of darker skin color than whites, are automatically considered as less than Whites in God's eyes. Getting the larger picture now?

**Ironically, many Trump supporters are now losing their land along the Mexican border to the Trump Wall under the Imminent Domain laws.

LOL, it is equally ironic that those Trump supporters who think they are the 'real' American citizens are busy little devils systematically tearing apart the very things that make up what a real American citizen actually is, while denying others their human and civil rights.

I think that America's expansionism was something that the early leaders agreed upon, although some of what you're addressing may be rooted in the national rivalries that developed among the European colonial powers and their subjects on the North American continent. We moved into the French-controlled Louisiana Territory and offered to purchase it, believing that France would rather take a payoff than actually fight for it. We also wanted British Canada, but our strategies and attempts to gain that territory proved to be a failure. But it worked in our acquisition of Spanish Florida.

Mexico was somewhat different, mainly because it was no longer ruled by Spain by the time Americans started moving into Texas. Americans also wanted to expand the country across the continent and have an outlet to the Pacific Ocean.

The issue of slavery was still hotly debated within the government, as the dividing lines for the impending Civil War were already being drawn. But our rapid expansionism in the 1840s likely accelerated things and intensified the debate. Rival economic factions fighting over the spoils of our plunder and booty. Lots of gold in them thar hills!

Also, just a small correction: The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo outlined the Mexican Cession of 1848, which included most of what is now the U.S. Southwest. The Gadsden Purchase was in 1853, and only involved the territory south of the Gila River in what is now Arizona and New Mexico.

It was actually Jefferson Davis who pushed for this. He was Secretary of War at the time, and he felt the territory was needed in order to construct a southern route for a transcontinental railroad.

I don't know if most Americans thought in terms of "dirty Mexicans," as you're suggesting, at least not at first. I think their earlier views might have been more influenced by historical English perceptions of Spain, which likely rubbed off on the English-speaking American colonists. Spain was considered a rival of England, so their colonial counterparts in North America likely paralleled that rivalry.

Mexico's history was also similar to America's in that they both were expanding into territories inhabited by various Native American tribes. So, in reality, neither one of them had any real moral "right" to control Texas or any other part of the continent, since both countries and their governments were established by European conquerors.

I think a major turning point in US perceptions of Mexico was when Napoleon XIV sent one of his minions to take over Mexico in a state of weakness while the US was embroiled in the Civil War. After the Civil War, the US was able to deal with the situation. But Mexico would be plagued with strife and instability, along with violence and political upheaval. The border regions were still mostly viewed as "wild west" country - sparsely populated, undeveloped, and rather far removed from the major population centers in both countries.

I think the incidents involving Pancho Villa may have been influential in shaping many of the modern US perceptions of Mexico. Pershing was sent in to get him. Plus, the Zimmerman Note put the idea in Americans' heads that Mexico's geographical proximity to the United States could be a source of vulnerability. Not so much from Mexico itself, but from the possibility that a foreign power could use Mexico as a staging area to attack the United States.

Industrialization, agricultural development, and further population expansion into the Southwest also led to similar migrations from Mexico into the United States.

This is probably where some of the views about Mexicans of the kind you're referring to were formulated and developed, since there was far greater contact and interaction than had previously existed. This also may have influenced many of the mass repatriations which took place involving Mexican-Americans - just rounded up and sent back to Mexico (and many were legal US citizens). There was severe mistreatment, exploitation, police brutality, and discrimination. I remember some telling me that when they were schoolchildren, kids were given corporal punishment for speaking Spanish.

I am somewhat resistant to the idea of categorizing Hispanics as a racial group, since it's more of a linguistic/cultural designation than an actual racial group. Just like America, Mexico has racial diversity and people of all colors and shades. This is even true within families where one can find varying shades of skin color. Although I've seen where the terms "Anglo" and "white" are often used to mean the same thing. But I've also known people who appear to be as "white" as anyone you might know, but they're not "Anglo." It's kind of complicated. Demographically, there are different categories for "white" (which includes Hispanics) and "non-Hispanic white."

As for the case cited in the OP, I had been following this case as it unfolded, and when I saw yesterday about the finding of the body and the arrest of the suspect, I figured there would be the typical anti-immigrant rhetoric floating about. I read some of the comments in the link provided where it appears that some people believe this may affect the coming midterms. I would imagine there would be some campaigns that would try to use this to gain political capital. Just like the shameless Willie Horton ads they used against Dukakis.

I remember that Arizona became rather infamous over the SB 1070 measure, but I also recall that just before it was passed by the state legislature, there was an incident where a local rancher near the border was murdered in cold blood. I don't think they found the killer, but it was a big local story for a while and it was presented in such a way as to make it appear that the killer came from Mexico and escaped back into that country. It's these kinds of things which get much of the public riled up and wanting to "do something" about border security.

 

[godnotgod]

Excellent food and goods. If you want tamales wait until after 10:30 A.M., not the meatiest tamales I've ever had but the masa has a great flavour.

So why post your spam on this thread? Besides, it's against forum rules. Were you trying to sanitize my post?

 

[Cacotopia]

The point is internet anonymity is the release people with this mindset needs to express themselves. These aren’t just a few people, I firmly believe it’s everyday people we socialize with. If I, a professional, can spend some time on the Internet forums commenting imagine doctors, lawyers, police.

I understand that, the anonymity gives people the power to say the worst things on their mind. Things they would never say in public. Or they might. but I would like to see how they would react if the were outed as being racist POS's.

 

[PureX]

So by saying what is REAL it therefore denotes what I and others experience aren’t? We dace a conglomerate of issues here in the states.

What you are experiencing is the result of our collective inability to recognize the foundational problem, which is the legitimization of monetary wealth/greed as a social motive and value determinant. Every black face in this country is a visible representation of our national historical legitimization of greed. So is every poor person we see. So we loathe them in no small part for exposing the rest of us for who we really are (and have pretty much always been).

It's why even the rich and powerful need scapegoats, even when they own and control everything else. They need someone to blame the damage that their own greed, arrogance, and ignorance has done, and is doing, to the world and people around them.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I understand that, the anonymity gives people the power to say the worst things on their mind. Things they would never say in public. Or they might. but I would like to see how they would react if the were outed as being racist POS's.

They would call it unfair and an infringement on their rights. People forget free speech isn’t free if it has consequences.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think that America's expansionism was something that the early leaders agreed upon, although some of what you're addressing may be rooted in the national rivalries that developed among the European colonial powers and their subjects on the North American continent. We moved into the French-controlled Louisiana Territory and offered to purchase it, believing that France would rather take a payoff than actually fight for it. We also wanted British Canada, but our strategies and attempts to gain that territory proved to be a failure. But it worked in our acquisition of Spanish Florida.

Mexico was somewhat different, mainly because it was no longer ruled by Spain by the time Americans started moving into Texas. Americans also wanted to expand the country across the continent and have an outlet to the Pacific Ocean.

The issue of slavery was still hotly debated within the government, as the dividing lines for the impending Civil War were already being drawn. But our rapid expansionism in the 1840s likely accelerated things and intensified the debate. Rival economic factions fighting over the spoils of our plunder and booty. Lots of gold in them thar hills!

Also, just a small correction: The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo outlined the Mexican Cession of 1848, which included most of what is now the U.S. Southwest. The Gadsden Purchase was in 1853, and only involved the territory south of the Gila River in what is now Arizona and New Mexico.

It was actually Jefferson Davis who pushed for this. He was Secretary of War at the time, and he felt the territory was needed in order to construct a southern route for a transcontinental railroad.

I don't know if most Americans thought in terms of "dirty Mexicans," as you're suggesting, at least not at first. I think their earlier views might have been more influenced by historical English perceptions of Spain, which likely rubbed off on the English-speaking American colonists. Spain was considered a rival of England, so their colonial counterparts in North America likely paralleled that rivalry.

Mexico's history was also similar to America's in that they both were expanding into territories inhabited by various Native American tribes. So, in reality, neither one of them had any real moral "right" to control Texas or any other part of the continent, since both countries and their governments were established by European conquerors.

I think a major turning point in US perceptions of Mexico was when Napoleon XIV sent one of his minions to take over Mexico in a state of weakness while the US was embroiled in the Civil War. After the Civil War, the US was able to deal with the situation. But Mexico would be plagued with strife and instability, along with violence and political upheaval. The border regions were still mostly viewed as "wild west" country - sparsely populated, undeveloped, and rather far removed from the major population centers in both countries.

I think the incidents involving Pancho Villa may have been influential in shaping many of the modern US perceptions of Mexico. Pershing was sent in to get him. Plus, the Zimmerman Note put the idea in Americans' heads that Mexico's geographical proximity to the United States could be a source of vulnerability. Not so much from Mexico itself, but from the possibility that a foreign power could use Mexico as a staging area to attack the United States.

Industrialization, agricultural development, and further population expansion into the Southwest also led to similar migrations from Mexico into the United States.

This is probably where some of the views about Mexicans of the kind you're referring to were formulated and developed, since there was far greater contact and interaction than had previously existed. This also may have influenced many of the mass repatriations which took place involving Mexican-Americans - just rounded up and sent back to Mexico (and many were legal US citizens). There was severe mistreatment, exploitation, police brutality, and discrimination. I remember some telling me that when they were schoolchildren, kids were given corporal punishment for speaking Spanish.

I am somewhat resistant to the idea of categorizing Hispanics as a racial group, since it's more of a linguistic/cultural designation than an actual racial group. Just like America, Mexico has racial diversity and people of all colors and shades. This is even true within families where one can find varying shades of skin color. Although I've seen where the terms "Anglo" and "white" are often used to mean the same thing. But I've also known people who appear to be as "white" as anyone you might know, but they're not "Anglo." It's kind of complicated. Demographically, there are different categories for "white" (which includes Hispanics) and "non-Hispanic white."

As for the case cited in the OP, I had been following this case as it unfolded, and when I saw yesterday about the finding of the body and the arrest of the suspect, I figured there would be the typical anti-immigrant rhetoric floating about. I read some of the comments in the link provided where it appears that some people believe this may affect the coming midterms. I would imagine there would be some campaigns that would try to use this to gain political capital. Just like the shameless Willie Horton ads they used against Dukakis.

I remember that Arizona became rather infamous over the SB 1070 measure, but I also recall that just before it was passed by the state legislature, there was an incident where a local rancher near the border was murdered in cold blood. I don't think they found the killer, but it was a big local story for a while and it was presented in such a way as to make it appear that the killer came from Mexico and escaped back into that country. It's these kinds of things which get much of the public riled up and wanting to "do something" about border security.

I lived in Tucson for some time back in the 90’s, Arizona was and to some extent is one racist state. I remember they wouldn’t recognize MLK day and with that being said with such a heavy population of Latinos I would have thought the people would have a different mindset. The perception of Mexicans is nothing historical, but the result of fear lingering and white suprcriminals Macias diatribe plain and simple.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What you are experiencing is the result of our collective inability to recognize the foundational problem, which is the legitimization of monetary wealth/greed as a social motive and value determinant. Every black face in this country is a visible representation of our national historical legitimization of greed. So is every poor person we see. So we loathe them in no small part for exposing the rest of us for who we really are (and have pretty much always been).

It's why even the rich and powerful need scapegoats, even when they own and control everything else. They need someone to blame the damage that their own greed, arrogance, and ignorance has done, and is doing, to the world and people around them.

Oh God... me and brown folks experience this daily. This president reminds us daily. This isn’t just about money for some of us it’s about how God made us. To you it’s about money to us it’s a combination of the two. But see you think as a member of an out group so I wouldn’t expect you to understand.

 

[Stevicus]

I lived in Tucson for some time back in the 90’s, Arizona was and to some extent is one racist state. I remember they wouldn’t recognize MLK day and with that being said with such a heavy population of Latinos I would have thought the people would have a different mindset. The perception of Mexicans is nothing historical, but the result of fear lingering and white suprcriminals Macias diatribe plain and simple.

Arizona is a mixed bag, being comprised of transplants from all over the U.S. - along with a substantial percentage of retirees. Arizona is becoming more of a "purplish" state than red. The whole flap over MLK day was really a lot of political stupidity which started when Evan Mecham became governor. He was elected with only 40% of the vote, but the Democratic vote was split between two other candidates, one of whom was a Democrat but running as an independent because he didn't like the one who was nominated.

Tucson has more of a Democratic voter base than Phoenix does, which is overwhelmingly conservative and Republican. That's not to say we don't have a good many right-wingers here, too, but it's a lower percentage than up in Phoenix. That's Joe Arpaio country up there.

But among the right-wingers, their perception of Mexico and Mexicans seems rooted in the idea that Mexico is a foreign power which wants back the lands which are currently part of the United States. That's why there's such a clamoring over "build the wall," since they see it as some kind of invasion by a foreign power. I won't deny that there's a racist component to that mindset, but it's also nationalistic to a large degree.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Except that the crime rate will illegal aliens is significantly lower than with U.S. citizens.

It would be lower still if illegals were not in the picture.

 

[PureX]

It would be lower still if illegals were not in the picture.

Actually, the RATE would be higher if you eliminated the group that has the lower rate from among the whole.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Actually, the RATE would be higher if you eliminated the group that has the lower rate from among the whole.

Let's put it this way. There would be fewer deaths.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I can't stand when people make this comment, and I even have to check some of the Latino students at my university for this revisionist mentality. Africans were never migrants to North America. Africans never asked to be here in North America so no they are not migrants in the least bit.

That was many generations ago and I had no part in it. You didn't either! Stop being childish. This is no excuse to practice reverse discrimination.



Your comment is the reason why I hyphenate my ethnic and national origin. Before I'm perceived to be a human or a man, I'm a black man. Before I'm perceived as an American, society such as your president 45 will always perceive me as an "African-American." Society will always remind people of color where their place is in North America.


So, now you play the Black card? I have worked as hard as I could, though I am almost invisible, to treat Black people and OTHER people of color equally and with love and respect. And, because of my own "special-ness" I have experienced considerable discrimination. The only way to move forward is for everyone to get over themselves and treat everyone with love.



You're surprised because you're naive, equivalent to an ostrich hiding their head in the sand. It's not a shot at you per se, but many people who are unaware of the plight of others either choose not to see, or consciously remain ignorant of the world around them. there are plenty missing kids and plenty deaths that occur. But look at the selective outrage that is going on. You have one white girl murdered in San Francisco and her killer, an "illegal immigrant," was let free setting off the fury of Trump's political base. what was their response?


I may be naive as you say, but I have worked to end it by educating myself. I was raised in a racist, southern type family and heard my parents speaking hatefully about "Chinks, Wetbacks, ******s, and Injuns". I knew it was wrong and when the oportunity to go to Honduras to help rebuild after Hurricane Mitch came, I did it twice and came back with a love for Hispanics. Later came the chance to go to Kenya as a Christian Missionary and I did it. I was shocked to see black people in Kenya. Yes I was quite ignorant. They spoke dignified English with a British accent, and were loving and helpful. None of the Attitude of some American "African-Americans". I came back with a deep love for people of any color including Africans. No Black, or person of color, African or not was ever mean to me when I was a Hijabi. So, Mister, Do not spew your hatred and sense of injustice at me. I did not abuse you!


"Build the Wall!"

"Another illegal Mexican"

I'm liking the comments because it serves as a reminder to a lot of Latinos who support Trump and his political ideology while repeating white supremacist talking point in regards to African-Americans. In North America, you are never truly an American and especially when something happens to a pretty Caucasian girl from an affluent family.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I'm not an immigrant I was born here.

That and murder is murder. Illegal or otherwise.

Still if immigration was stricter, that murder may not have happened.

That is not a credible statement.

 

[Cacotopia]

They would call it unfair and an infringement on their rights. People forget free speech isn’t free if it has consequences.

They make a post, post has an IP address attached. Also most idiots post through Fb accounts. You could go further to the morons that don't have private accounts and just share their post on their own timeline.