Truth? Which truth?

[Master Vigil]

Like I said before, if they're happy here. Why wouldn't they be happy in the hereafter (if it exists)?

What good is it to be depressed here because of the unneeded concept of an afterlife, and then find out it doesn't exist?

Why do you want to burden their lives with an unneeded, unproven, concept when they are clearly happy already?

Why even need for them to be convinced? They are clearly completely happy, why ruin that?

 

[Cordoba]

And why should they be "depressed" here?

Most believers are very happy people, with plenty of internal joy from within and from their love for God.

It's up to each individual to decide.

P.S. By now that island has received it's first computer and satellite Internet connection. The whole world is at their fingertips. Let them decide!

 

[Master Vigil]

Oy! I can see this argument is futile. I sit in favor of their happiness. Why you wish to change it, I'll never know. Remember, the missionaries wanted to save the native americans. All they did was destroy their culture, their freedom, and the effects can still be seen today. The missionaries wanted to save the japanese, but instead they caused many, many wars in feudal japan. I see no need for missionaries.

 

[Cordoba]

There are other positive experiences elsewhere, MV.

Muslim traders went to Malaysia and Indonesia, and from their honesty and excellent dealings, Islam spread in that part of the world without the natives loosing their culture or freedom.

It's a free island, and a free world.

Each person has the right to choose what he finds to be more convincing.

All the best.

 

[Melody]

Tell bith missionaries to leave their holy book on the Island and push off to other missionary shores. The True God of either or both holy books will be revealed from the reading of His holy book. It will then be the choice of the reader to serve the God he so chooses.


precept

Frubals to you! Now let's hope the natives can read.

 

[Melody]

Cordoba,
Wonderful posts! I'd frubal you on all of them if it would let me.

 

[michel]

Oy! I can see this argument is futile. I sit in favor of their happiness. Why you wish to change it, I'll never know. Remember, the missionaries wanted to save the native americans. All they did was destroy their culture, their freedom, and the effects can still be seen today. The missionaries wanted to save the japanese, but instead they caused many, many wars in feudal japan. I see no need for missionaries.

I agree with you totally and unequivocably, Master V. I saw the effects of missionaries - all well meaning, in Africa, in the Congo. At the time of the independence, (in 1959) the missionaries were among the first to be brutally massacred by the natives - now, if that doesn't say something about the way the natives felt..........
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Master Vigil again.:banghead3

 

[CaptainXeroid]

In the world of Star Trek, rule number one, the Prime Directive, is that they should not interfere in the development of other peoples. That's from memory, and it's too early for me to look up the exact wording, but I hope you get the point and how it applies to this scenario.

I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with people sharing their faith with others who are receptive to learn, but in this very hypothetical scenario, IMHO, these 2 missionaries represent an unwelcome intrusion into this culture.

Think about this from another perspective. What if the people on the island had their own religion and no knowledge of others and an athiest showed up to tell them their god did not exist? Anyone remember the movie 'The Gods Must Be Crazy' and the upheaval caused by the Coke bottle?

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Thank you for your thoughts, people. I remember reading once that a newly discovered village in darkest New Guinea had 40 (yes 40!) missionaries from various religions (or branches of) waiting to pounce as soon as they got the option! No wonder, the primative people were and are confused and generally end up by picking bits out of whatever takes their fancy and adding it to their own religion, as happens in Sth America where there are blends of Voodoo and Christianity, for example.
More input please.

The 40 missionaries should have closed their mouths and listened to what God had taught the inhabitants of New Guinea. Just like the white man should have listened to the Indians, instead of trying to convert them. Then, in turn share the knowledge of Christ. We should have been compairing notes the whole time, not trying to prove each other wrong.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

...We should have been compairing notes the whole time, not trying to prove each other wrong.

I think we have a winner....and frubals accordingly.

 

[Cordoba]

Cordoba,
Wonderful posts! I'd frubal you on all of them if it would let me.

Thanks, Melody.

That's very nice of you.

 

[michel]

In the world of Star Trek, rule number one, the Prime Directive, is that they should not interfere in the development of other peoples. That's from memory, and it's too early for me to look up the exact wording, but I hope you get the point and how it applies to this scenario.

I guess my point is that I don't have a problem with people sharing their faith with others who are receptive to learn, but in this very hypothetical scenario, IMHO, these 2 missionaries represent an unwelcome intrusion into this culture.

Think about this from another perspective. What if the people on the island had their own religion and no knowledge of others and an athiest showed up to tell them their god did not exist? Anyone remember the movie 'The Gods Must Be Crazy' and the upheaval caused by the Coke bottle?

Well, that now makes a 'band of three' - I was actually thinking of using the 'Startrek prime directive' myself.Fruballs on you my friend.

 

[Luminous]

The best answer is to give the inhabitants of the island a chance to listen or read both books, then give them time to think.

Some will be convinced, and others won't.
Some may have questions to ask, and the two guys will answer them according to their references.

The best solution (imo) is let each person freely decide.

It's a free island !

And then the Ilanders polarize and start killin each other, because each thinks the other is a bad influence upon their kids.

 

[Sententia]

You find yourself on a desert island (desert in the sense that it cut off from the rest of the world). You are a missionary and you are clutching your Bible. You also find yourself in company with another very nice person who turns out to be a Muslim. He/she is holding a copy of the Koran.
The island is populated by gentle, kind people who are living in harmony and have done for as long as you can discover. However, they have no religion, not that this seems to concern them.
So ......what happens next?
Do you show them your Bible and say 'Believe, because this is the truth!' ?
If your fellow missionary does the same with his/her Holy Book, what then?
I'd like some thoughts on this because it does happen. Maybe not as simply as I have suggested but it does happen.:sarcastic

This is a ridiculous question as I would never be a missionary and holding the hate filled bible and advocating it as a good thing to anyone not sufficiently educated enough to grasp the beuty of it.



Still...

We are so nieve and still maturing as a civilization. The days of blind religion are coming to a close and if your religious thats just prophesy fulfilling itself... (I dont believe in prophesy in the supernatural sense...)

Allright... If I havent rattled your cage yet I am quite impressed hehe... If I have hear me out for a moment...

We know we have fundamentalists and people who have the mind to twist and literally interpret their beliefs and enforce them even at the cost and in some cases preferably at the cost of their own and others lives.

We are now going to introduce to some percentage of people on all 4000 sides of the fences that seperate the various religions a set of beliefs that will cause conflict.

Is this moral?

I dont think people can transcend these beliefs yet. Well obviously many people do and have on all sides of all fences but ultimately many do not. In america I heard a joke which is somewhat related. (Maybe I just want to tell this story lol)

A man and a woman are golfing together for the first time. They have been married for some time and enjoy the company of each other immensely. After some time of golfing, it was the 4th hole I believe, the woman hits the ball with a terrible slice. The ball veers to the right and well off course and smashes through the window of house that is very near the course.

The man grimaces and scolds his wife. He is a man of principle though and tells his wife that they both must go together to apoligize and repay the owner of the abode.

They knock and a warm inviting voice bids them enter. They both walk through feeling rather ashamed and see a plain and sparse living room adorned with only a couch and a table. The table was near the window that is broken and upon the floor they see the broken glass and the remnants of an old broken bottle. Upon the couch they see a pleasant looking man dressed in plain clothing unlike current modern styles but not by much.

The husband is the first to speak both awkwardily and sheepishly, "I am sorry sir we broke your window and would like to pay for it."

The man replies quickly and calmly and without anger or malice, "Its not problem, no one was hurt and in fact I would like to thank you."

The man is bewildered by both the warm tone and the words themselves. He cocks his head quizically and responds, "Thank us? Why is that?"

The man explains, "Well I have been imprisoned for the last 3000 years within that bottle you broke." He pauses and geustures at the bottle, "You see I am a genie and as is tradition I will grant you three wishes. However, if you dont mind I will grant you each one wish but would like to save the last wish for myself."

The man pondered this for a second and considered how such misfortune could end up being so lucky. He considers his wish and hastily makes it, "Genie, I wish that I would recieve a million dollars a year for the rest of my life."

The genie smiles and nods his head and says with a warm voice, "Done. Not only will you recieve your money but I will also guarantee you a long and happy life." He then nods at the woman.

"Well genie... I would like a house in every nation complete with a full compliment of maids and servants.", says the woman rather smugly.

"Done", says the genie and then adds, "I will also guarantee the safety of each house and protect it from all manners of natural disasters."

In unison the couple asks, "And for you genie... what is your wish?"

"Well", begins the genie, "I have been trapped in that bottle for over 3000 years and it has been a long time since I have known a women. I would like to be intimate with your wife for today only."

At this the couple ponders and debates. "Well we both are rich now and have everything we could ever want but could you handle this?", the wife asks of the husband.

"Go", says the husband after a short pause. Then he shifts restlessly and adds, "I will come back tonight and we will together try our new life."

At that the woman and genie retire upstairs and the genie is near insaitable. After many hours he finally grows tired and looks sated and pulls a cigerette from his night drawer. He pulls a long drag and then turns to the woman and inquires, "How old are you?"

The woman who is also tired and a bit ashamed replies in curious tone, "35 years old."

At this the man laughs and responds, "And you and your husband still believe in genies?" (This story is from memory but I first read it in Stephen Uhl's book, no gods no guilt.... great read if you ever get the time)

 

[yor]

Cordoba i can prove it to you that the bible is the best book to be a bases of our faith

 

[ChristineES]

I wish I could have responded 4 years ago! A person should make themselves available and let the people come to them if they want to hear it. Forcing it wouldn't go over well for anyone. That is what we do now- Billy Graham would have a crusade at a sports arena, let people know he was there, and people would come to hear him speak. On the other hand, I have never seen a Islam crusade at a sports arena. Solutions are so easy as are compromises, and I am surprised that most people aren't willing to make them.

 

[Luminous]

Cordoba i can prove it to you that the bible is the best book to be a bases of our faith

which one?

 

[Draka]

Can I opt to be one of the natives instead and toss both the missionaries on a rickety raft and send them off before they even get a chance to open their mouths or their books?

 

[Luminous]

Yes, yes you can because it is funny as hell and i brought this thread back to life.:birthday:So it belong to ME now!!!!!!!!
FYI: Its been dead for THREE years. a little :liturgy: then... :woohoo: -last post was #32.


I put forth that we all start looking for recyclebles!