Trying to Find a Shortcut out of Bizarro World

[Nous]

Still beside the point. Trump was elected by the Republican voters (and others) and those Republicans that make their living by being politicians are taking notice.

Are they taking notice of the fact that according to one survey 40% of Americans already want Trump impeached--after 2 weeks in office!!! That figure is not going to become more favorable for Trump after the honeymoon is over, is it?

 

[Nous]

We need to look at who is third in command. Cause if Trump is ever taken out, all this vile hatred reserved for Trump will be aimed squarely at Pence. It'll be (literally) the same rhetoric/schtick and constant calls for him to be removed from office.

I know of no reason to believe that Pence is as ignorant, impetuous, tactless, indiscreet, and childish as Trump is so as to provoke fear and disdain in Americans like Trump does.

 

[Nous]

I suppose since the dollar is now the global reserve currency by your broad definition, anyone who holds a dollar is in violation of the emolument clause.

Try to be less ridiculous. Nothing that I said or quoted from Tribe et al. implies that holding a dollar is a violation of the Emolument Clause.

Why don't you try reading and understanding the information you've been provided?

 

[Kemosloby]

Try to be less ridiculous. Nothing that I said or quoted from Tribe et al. implies that holding a dollar is a violation of the Emolument Clause.

Why don't you try reading and understanding the information you've been provided?

You mean like swallow the hook line and sinker? It looks pretty old and rusty. What is the purpose of the clause? Do you think the founding fathers saw Trump coming? What business or income do you believe Trump recieved violated the clause? Anyone who checks into his hotel from another country?

 

[columbus]

Let's start with "rigged system". What rigged system?

I thought it obvious that I meant the party primaries. I don't really have a problem with rigging in those. Political parties are just as privately owned and operated as a retailer, church, media outlets or PAC. They have no obligations to democratic principles or the people or anything.
The DNC rigged theirs to provide the illusion of democratic process. The RNC rigged theirs to provide the illusion of a strong frontrunner early on. I'm sure Wasserman-Schultz was wishing for some big "winner takes all" primaries like Florida. I'm sure Preibus was wishing for some "superdelegates" after Indiana. Oh well.

I have a batch of opinions about primary reform, but that's another thread.

Do you really not see the rigging in these various political systems? I see it all over the place.

Tom

 

[Nous]

Still beside the point. Trump was elected by the Republican voters (and others) and those Republicans that make their living by being politicians are taking notice.

Actually your comments are beside the point, as my question was this: So would you prefer Pence in the White House rather than Trump at this point? You didn't answer the question yet.

 

[Nous]

What is the purpose of the clause?

You mean that you read the paper by Eisen, Painter and Tribe, but didn't understand this quote from Edmund Randolph: "This restriction is provided to prevent corruption . . . " ?

How could anyone possibly be confused about what the purpose of this provision is?

What business or income do you believe Trump recieved violated the clause? Anyone who checks into his hotel from another country?

Read this sentence from the OP: "Joshua Matz and Lawrence Tribe ably argue that any receipt of monies or other consideration through his business interests from persons with connections to foreign governments puts Trump in violation of the Foreign Emoluments Clause." See if you can discern the difference between what that says and what you said.

You still haven't answered the question that this thread is about: So would you prefer Pence in the White House rather than Trump at this point?

 

[Kemosloby]

You mean that you read the paper by Eisen, Painter and Tribe, but didn't understand this quote from Edmund Randolph: "This restriction is provided to prevent corruption . . . " ?

How could anyone possibly be confused about what the purpose of this provision is?

Read this sentence from the OP: "Joshua Matz and Lawrence Tribe ably argue that any receipt of monies or other consideration through his business interests from persons with connections to foreign governments puts Trump in violation of the Foreign Emoluments Clause." See if you can discern the difference between what that says and what you said.

You still haven't answered the question that this thread is about: So would you prefer Pence in the White House rather than Trump at this point?

No, I would not want to see Pence at all.
Of course the clause is meant to prevent corruption. But George Washington owned a plantation, probably grew some crops for export and received a fair market value. That is not corruption. Neither is Trumps. So if preventing corruption is the intent of the emolument clause Trump has not violated the intent or spirit of the law. Libs merely bastardize the clause when it suits them, and are blind to it when it doesn't. Which is why Trump won. He is honest.

 

[Nous]

George Washington owned a plantation, probably grew some crops for export and received a fair market value.

Cite your sources by which to conclude that Washington exported goods while he was President.

Neither is Trumps. So if preventing corruption is the intent of the emolument clause Trump has not violated the intent or spirit of the law.

Prove it.

He is honest.

When is he going to release his tax returns? And why did he lie about why he "could not" release them?

 

[Kemosloby]

Cite your sources by which to conclude that Washington exported goods while he was President.
Prove it.

When is he going to release his tax returns? And why did he lie about why he "could not" release them?

Do you think presidents sold their plantations when they became presidents? Washington the slave owner sold whiskey and paid export taxes. All they have to do is look at some of these past presidents business and conclude Trump isn't doing anything wrong.

Innocent until proven guilty.

My guess is releasing his tax returns might expose some of his business trade secrets. Like giving away his secret recipe.

 

[Nous]

Do you think presidents sold their plantations when they became presidents? Washington the slave owner sold whiskey and paid export taxes.

I already knew you didn't have a source by which to conclude that Washington exported products when he was President. You're shooting blanks.

My guess is releasing his tax returns might expose some of his business trade secrets. Like giving away his secret recipe.

So you think he lied about releasing his tax returns.

And you apparently don't know of any legitimate reason for his lie about why he "could not" release them in the first place.

I guess the only question is why you call unrepentant liars "honest"?

 

[Kemosloby]

I already knew you didn't have a source by which to conclude that Washington exported products when he was President. You're shooting blanks.

So you think he lied about releasing his tax returns.

And you apparently don't know of any legitimate reason for his lie about why he "could not" release them in the first place.

I guess the only question is why you call unrepentant liars "honest"?

I didn't say he lied, you said that.

 

[BSM1]

Actually your comments are beside the point, as my question was this: So would you prefer Pence in the White House rather than Trump at this point? You didn't answer the question yet.

No.

I already knew you didn't have a source by which to conclude that Washington exported products when he was President. You're shooting blanks.

So you think he lied about releasing his tax returns.

And you apparently don't know of any legitimate reason for his lie about why he "could not" release them in the first place.

I guess the only question is why you call unrepentant liars "honest"?

Evidently there is a secret drawer in the WH where Presidents can put documentation without it ever being seen. Such as Trump's tax returns, or Obama's college transcripts...just sayin'.

 

[Nous]

Evidently there is a secret drawer in the WH where Presidents can put documentation without it ever being seen. Such as Trump's tax returns, or Obama's college transcripts...just sayin'.

We found Obama's transcripts:

https://danieljmitchell.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/obama-transcript.jpg

Show us Trump's tax returns.

 

[Nous]

I didn't say he lied, you said that.

I'll ask again:

When is he going to release his tax returns? And why did he lie about why he "could not" release them?

Try giving an answer this time, so I won't have to ask again.

 

[Kemosloby]

I'll ask again:

When is he going to release his tax returns? And why did he lie about why he "could not" release them?

Try giving an answer this time, so I won't have to ask again.

When you pester him enough perhaps, How long did it take Hawaii to forge a birth certificate? What reason did Trump give for not releasing his tax returns?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

One can easily imagine all manner of realistic scenarios in which Trump's removal from office would be seriously contemplated by both the American public and Congress. Joshua Matz and Lawrence Tribe ably argue that any receipt of monies or other consideration through his business interests from persons with connections to foreign governments puts Trump in violation of the Foreign Emoluments Clause. They show that, contrary to the contention of Trump's corporate lawyers, the Foreign Emoluments Clause cannot possibly be interpreted as excluding the profits from “fair market value” transactions. Accordingly, Trump is already in violation of this Constitutional provision.

Eliot Cohen, former counsel to Secretary of State Condolezza Rice, speculates that Trump might be removed from office by operation of the 25th Amendment. It isn't far-fetched, especially in light of the fact that Section 4 gives Congress the power to choose any body other than the majority of the principle officers of the executive departments as the body that, along with the Vice President, transmits the declaration of the President's unfitness, the instrument that removes the President from office. Congress can designate itself or any committee as that body. And, of course, a Vice President on the sinking ship of a wildly unpopular administration would seem to have nothing to lose by joining in such a declaration, especially when most Americans think the President truly is a lunatic.

In any case, regardless of the method of Trump's removal, Pence would become President. I don't know much about Pence, but I know he is a lawyer, and the mere fact that he got into law school, graduated law school, and passed the bar means that he is more intelligent when he is unconscious than Trump is in his most acute state. I would also assume that Pence is more electable for a second term than Trump is.

So would you prefer Pence in the White House rather than Trump at this point? Would Pence be at least a point or marker on the road out of Bizarro World?

(This question is for people outside of the US also, since the whole world is affected by the idiocy that happens in the US.)

My money is on two terms for Mr Trump,

The economy is usually by far the #1 concern for voters, with the rare exception of something else which we can't predict. And so historically, much hinges on the state of the economy at re-election.
I know someone who campaigned for Hillary, who has no complaints about the record breaking stock market run right now & the saved jobs in her area.

Achieving so much so quickly, taking a 1$ salary, slashing the budgets on his own perks as president. Bizarro world for sure! But only in politics as we are used to it

Trump built a wildly successful multinational organization, which means he has more real world economic savvy while unconscious, than almost every other politician on planet Earth combined.

So 8 years for Donald, and then.... who knows?

 

[Nous]

What reason did Trump give for not releasing his tax returns?

You don't seem to know much about this consummate liar you want to be President. He said he couldn't release his tax returns because they are being audited. That's a lie--being audited does not prevent anyone from releasing their tax returns.

 

[Nous]

My money is on two terms for Mr Trump,

As noted above, there is a poll showing that 40% of people already think he should be impeached. That number is not going to shrink.

The economy is usually by far the #1 concern for voters

Trump hasn't created a single job yet. The Rust Belt is as rusty as ever. All he has done is proposed things that will bust the budget, which will already increase the deficit.