Tunisia and Egypt ! Way to go

[fatima_bintu_islam]

I say now at 4:20 am while watching all this ; I say and I have to say that you should stop! And Im aware of what Im saying

Muslim blood is much more precious than anything, tomorrow appears to be too much bloody . People live in fear, are hungry and people are getting killed.

In Islam blood is much more precious than anything, Al Jazeera is trying to add fuel to the fire, while some people decided that its becoming bloody and that security of their country is much more important than all this ; while all this, Al Jazeera is speaking only to those who want to stay and are not willing to leave , people tried to call Al Jazeera to call people to stop the bloodshed but they didnt let them.

People should stop, more blood wont make us forget the 300 killed; we prefer to stop than seeing our brothers and sisters being killed or Egypt being transformed in another Iraq which is what foreign agendas want to see happening.

Only the most poor people were touched by all this; I sincerely call my brothers and sisters to stop. Im sincere in this wallahi and Im sure many many many egyptians are with me on this, but Al Jazeera doesnt want to speak about it.

I dont think Al Jazeera has agendas as some people say , I think they just felt like excited about all this and forgot that people are dying , so they kept adding fuel to see what they call liberty happening. While only blood and death happened.

I might have wrote something totally uncomprehensible, but Im too much tired to reread it ; but one thing I know and I call my brothers and sisters to do is to stop ; listen to scholars whom hearts are about to stop beating because of seeing their sons of daughters being killed. Listen to Sheykh Muhammad Hassan , please listen to him . Youtube محمد حسان المحور and listen to what hes saying.


Alahul Musta'ane Allahul Musta'ane , my nerves are about to explose Allahuma Stur Allahuma Stur yaa rabb, rabbena yestur w y3sem dima2 l moslimine ghadane yaaaaa rabbal 'alamine yaa rabb I mean today not ghadane

 

[Sahar]

Well said Abibi and FVM. I can't believe how some Egyptians have been brainwashed after the speech of Mubarak...in addition to the effect of the Egyptian media...I can't believe there are such naive people who are now insulting anyone who want to see Mubarak leaving, now Mubarak has become a hero in their eyes..and he is nothing but a criminal tyrant who is still killing his people...

 

[Sahar]

Please beware of what's happening here by the criminal regime and its thugs. The internet was shut down for a week, after its immediate return; the websites and facebook pages became full of anti-protests, pro-Mubarak users, messages and groups. They used that time to infiltrate the internet websites and groups for their propaganda. Of course Mubarak speech was a part of that tactic, after which they connected us with the internet. The Egyptian media is now controlled by thugs of the regime who propagate "conspiracy plots" that those who started this uprising are not Egyptians and are trained by the Jews and the US. They sent thugs and criminals to kill the honored youth in Tahrir Sqaure. Now, the criminal authorities banned the international media to work and convey the events and they managed to defame independent media like Al-Jazeera and even hackers could penetrate its advertising page and made a banner that says "Together to overthrow Egypt" and Al-Jazeera have just made a headline about the hackers: الأخبAl-Jazeera

The conclusion: they managed to use the same methods that the youth used; to fight the revolution in addition to their thugs and criminals...they managed to divide the Egyptian population who indeed have been fooled by their propaganda and today I fully believe it will be their peak of tactics to end the revolution after they banned the international media to convey the events from the ground live. Mostly the Egyptian media will say that those who protested against Mubarak are only 5 thousands especially with weakening the international media and by this they will claim there is no one supporting the change.
I swear by God, those who have spent their last days in Tahrir Sqaure and are stil there now are the real Egyptians, are the noble people who indeed are standing firmly in fighting against a wide-scale organized terrorism. And I am really afraid they are going to massacre them more and massacre the entire revolution.

 

[Sahar]

Have you seen these videos, guys? (warning: if you have a weak heart don't watch)
[youtube]_cWOK0Lfh7w[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cWOK0Lfh7w&feature=player_embedded&skipcontrinter=1#

[youtube]PsPBA-bEuEQ&start=40[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsPBA-bEuEQ#t=40s

How come after such terrorism you want to give up and believe in the criminal Mobarak and his animals?

 

[Badran]

Badran, but why protest in the first place then? I thought these protests were to dispose of Mubarak right?

We protested having a list of demands in mind, including Mubarak leaving the rule. Some of these demands has already been accomplished, others are in the process of being done. The leaving of Mubarak in a few months will actually be better than him leaving right away, as it will be less chaotic. Some of the hardcore protesters even agree that this is the case, but they're skeptical of whether or not he will leave in a few months.

Add to your prospective the changes that occurred since the start of the protest. Today, the Egyptian people in general are not one team. Many, and i do mean many people fully support Mubarak. We've made a great accomplishment and should start a peaceful process now after the impact we've made. The impact which is not confined to staying at Tahrir square. Even if the protests stop that doesn't mean Mubarak now can get things the way they were, things has changed beyond changing back.

still he attacks Egyptians, still his thugs beat and imprison peaceful protesters. Please brother, nothing has changed to stop now would to leave things only half-finished. Why take the risk of Mubarak taking advantage and cementing his power, which he clearly has tried to do after his speech?

First, none of these accusations can actually be proven to be done by Mubarak, and indeed its most likely not. As its not in his interest to do that right after his speech. Second, you shouldn't say Abibi that nothing has changed, everything has changed. People now are on TV calling Mubarak names, people now are not afraid as they used to be. The old government has been sacked, and many of the corrupt elements in the past government are now not allowed to leave the country and their bank accounts are frozen. The new government (Mainly its head i mean the PM) are completely different of the sort of people we used to have. The Vice president in a speech he made, and Mubarak in ABC yesterday according to news has said that neither he nor his son are going to enter the elections. Mubarak has and is and will remain cornered to the rest of his term.

Badran this is all assuming that Mubarak keeps his word! Why should any Egyptian trust a man who has shamed elections for thirty years? Who has installed as his VP, another oppressive man who takes delight in being the puppet of Israel and the West? Who has incited and directed Egyptians to kill and harm their protesting brothers? Whose armed police have disguised themselves as plainclothes civilians and shot and killed protesters, who have destroyed the national heritage of Egypt.

First, the elections have been this way before he got here. Its not like his specialty or anything. Even ex popular presidents didn't do anything about the elections. Second, i don't know the information you have that leads you to say that the vice president is a puppet, but either way he is actually someone that has been called for to be vice president for a long time. So its actually a move that was done to appease people. Third, you can't say that he directed Egyptians to kill and harm their protesting brothers, neither can you pin on him the mere fact of some cops who could've been acting on their own or have been led by anybody inside the ex government or Al Hezb El Watany. And of course if you mean by destroy the heritage that he was behind any of the things which were done to our monuments and so, same story i'm afraid. Not only are these accusations unproven, but indeed he is not in the least the most probable suspect to be behind them. We have to acknowledge that chaos does occur in these circumstances, some intentional (which could be done by many parties), some are not.

You can't let yourself follow the rants of people who like to live the victim mentality and pin everything on their governments. Mubarak is a terrible president, and has done plenty of unforgivable mistakes. However, some people exaggerate widely, he is not some blood thirsty evil dictator who is bound to destroy people's lives. Neither is he as bad as Ben Ali was at least according to what i hear. Egypt's conditions are different. It is a fact that some people today, and even in the past before the protest, actually believe it or not don't view Mubarak that badly at all. Before the protests, i have heard numerous times from even intelligent people saying that Mubarak is not that bad, but that he's an idiot surrounded by bad people.

The man who has tried to shut down Al-Jazeera and their coverage so that he can retain control and stop people from learning horrible truths of his regime?

Or merely to stop it from inciting people regardless of the repercussions. Of course, i'm not defending him, i'm merely saying that assuming that Al Jazeera broadcasts the holy truth to be extremely strange. I find it surprising that even some Egyptians may find Al Jazeera to be a neutral news source, especially in regards to anything going on in Egypt.

Did you hear anything by the way about wikileaks concerning Al Jazeera and its usage as a tool by Qatar's government?

It's one thing to take the word of a man who deserves it, Mubarak has done everything possible to show the Egyptians that he isn't such a man.

I agree, and i'm not in the least relying on his honesty.

The Tunisian army sided with the people when it refused to shoot them. It was not the army, it was the people that were the ultimate cause. Governments cannot function if they lose their legitimacy in the eyes of their people, I believe that that as far as the army is concerned it is a third party trying to protect the people until this sorts out. The onus is on the Egyptian people to overthrow their leadership.

If the Egyptian Army decides today to turn on Mubarak its over for him, thats what i mean. I'm not taking away from people's accomplishments. Merely recognizing the effect of the Army.

But you are still legitimizing his rule for these months. And what is to stop him from then running for elections again and next time being less hesitant to kill Egyptians now that he knows that they will not try to overthrow him when push comes to shove.

Why would he assume that people won't make an even bigger reaction? I don't think you fully realize Abibi what has happened here in Egypt. I don't think you understand how Egypt has changed today.

Not just in terms of Egypt, but in terms of the entire Middle East. Yemen, Jordan, Palestine, Syria and on. These are not just isolated to one country, Wallahi people take this news and are heartened. Heartened to know that they can take control of their lives and get rid of the oppressive regimes they live in.

Another reason i'm confident of our achievement, is the reaction of those other country's governments. From the beginning when Tunisians did what they did all the way to what we did here in Egypt, the leaders of those countries are frightened to put it lightly.

Police ID cards seized on pro-Mubarak "protesters" inciting violence and injuring people in Tahrir Square.

Which doesn't mean in the least that Mubarak was behind them. Not to mention that there is and was bad elements in the anti-Mubarak protesters as well.

Some may be sincere

You have to make this clear for yourself, not just some, plenty of people today fully support Mubarak. And another group just want this chaos to stop.

 

[Badran]

I want to add that i'm not against people in Tahrir square today. I fully understand what they have in mind, and why they're still there. What i'm saying here, is simply my view of what might be the best rout to take. The wisest, safest and least violent rout that is. However, if keeping the protests going will work i'll be just as happy.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Well said Abibi and FVM. I can't believe how some Egyptians have been brainwashed after the speech of Mubarak...in addition to the effect of the Egyptian media...I can't believe there are such naive people who are now insulting anyone who want to see Mubarak leaving, now Mubarak has become a hero in their eyes..and he is nothing but a criminal tyrant who is still killing his people...

I don't know if you realize the exact extent of just how literal the brainwashing through the media is. It is more like mind control of the masses, where people will believe what is on television more than they believe what is in front of them. The greatest, most successful hypnotist in all the history of the world is the rectangular box that sits in homes of people all across the globe.

It isn't a mistake or a coincidence that the good speech was given and the thugs and killing started at the same time. It is a sort of cognitive dissonance where what you have seen is totally opposite to what you are hearing and/or experiencing. The beautiful words juxtaposed with the violence is designed to make you rethink what you're doing. To view Mubarak as the one who will make things better for you. This stands at polar opposites to what he had already shown the people he is capable of.

Make no mistake the brutality displayed in just those videos are the tip of the iceberg. It should shock me but sadly it doesn't. Quite literally we are dealing with human shayateen here. Does shaitan have any boundaries? Any lines he is unwilling to cross? The same human devils lording over your people are the same ones lording over mine, and the vast majority of the people of the world.

They do not rest, they don't take a day off, a vacation from their tyranny over the people. The plan never dies, it never abates. They never rethink it or have a change of heart. They press upon you to be non-violent when you demand your rights, but it is with a brutal violence they seek to deprive you of them. They beat you and kill you, then tell you to be non-violent when you retaliate.

I will say to Fatima, that I feel your pain, but freedom comes at the cost of bloodshed. The oppression over the people is worse than killing. It was with a heavy bloodshed that blacks were freed of physical bondage. It was with heavy bloodshed of the Muslims that changed the face of Saudi Arabia during the time of rasulullah (saw). You and I will be in the same situation soon Fatima. Our very lives will be on the line when it comes time to do our part against these shayateen.

 

[Bismillah]

Egypt's 'final push' protests begin - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

 

[Badran]

Some famous people went to Tahrir square and tried talking to the anti-Mubarak protesters, but they didn't hear them to the end. I'm not sure how they cut of their speech but i understand they didn't let them continue.

Also there are mentions of talks about the idea of Mubarak handing responsibilities to his VP, and mainly just remaining as a mere figure, while the VP being the one who carries out all the actions. I'm not sure if thats going to be enough for the protesters.

 

[Peace]

Some famous people went to Tahrir square and tried talking to the anti-Mubarak protesters, but they didn't hear them to the end. I'm not sure how they cut of their speech but i understand they didn't let them continue.

Also there are mentions of talks about the idea of Mubarak handing responsibilities to his VP, and mainly just remaining as a mere figure, while the VP being the one who carries out all the actions. I'm not sure if thats going to be enough for the protesters.

Who are those famous figures, Badran?
I saw more than once Amr Khaled among the protestors, is he still with the protestors?

 

[Sahar]

Peace, there were much more famous figures; thinkers, writers, scholars and artists among the protesters, taking their side, proud of that beautiful youth and call for what they call for. Thank God so much, it went peacefully today and they proved again that they are civilized and clean people, may God bless them. I am very proud of them and I though that the numbers would be much less today because of the rumors and propaganda of the dirty regime which many people believed but thank God the number reached two millions there and they proved that there are people with clean heads who didn't buy the rumors contrary to some others.

 

[Sahar]

I don't know if you realize the exact extent of just how literal the brainwashing through the media is. It is more like mind control of the masses, where people will believe what is on television more than they believe what is in front of them. The greatest, most successful hypnotist in all the history of the world is the rectangular box that sits in homes of people all across the globe.

It isn't a mistake or a coincidence that the good speech was given and the thugs and killing started at the same time. It is a sort of cognitive dissonance where what you have seen is totally opposite to what you are hearing and/or experiencing. The beautiful words juxtaposed with the violence is designed to make you rethink what you're doing. To view Mubarak as the one who will make things better for you. This stands at polar opposites to what he had already shown the people he is capable of.

Make no mistake the brutality displayed in just those videos are the tip of the iceberg. It should shock me but sadly it doesn't. Quite literally we are dealing with human shayateen here. Does shaitan have any boundaries? Any lines he is unwilling to cross? The same human devils lording over your people are the same ones lording over mine, and the vast majority of the people of the world.

They do not rest, they don't take a day off, a vacation from their tyranny over the people. The plan never dies, it never abates. They never rethink it or have a change of heart. They press upon you to be non-violent when you demand your rights, but it is with a brutal violence they seek to deprive you of them. They beat you and kill you, then tell you to be non-violent when you retaliate.

I will say to Fatima, that I feel your pain, but freedom comes at the cost of bloodshed. The oppression over the people is worse than killing. It was with a heavy bloodshed that blacks were freed of physical bondage. It was with heavy bloodshed of the Muslims that changed the face of Saudi Arabia during the time of rasulullah (saw). You and I will be in the same situation soon Fatima. Our very lives will be on the line when it comes time to do our part against these shayateen.

When I read your post and Abibi's, I found it amazing that you view the situation from its proper perspective, things are clear to you which even are not that clear to some Egyptians here. The idea is, over the years, most Egyptians distrusted the regime and all what it says, so I believe what has been being said, just in the last two days, was strange "We love you Mubarak", "You are a hero", etc, but now I realized that these are dogs of the regime who organized all this whether in the streets, on TV or internet. An analytical and talk show on an Egyptian "independent channel" presented a document from the police that orders some of its elements to spread chaos and make crying hysterical women call the TV stations to scare the public and give them the sense they must go home and defend themselves and it's either chaos or give up your protests.

But unfortunately many ordinary "non hired" people bought into all this, of course not to the extent of "we adore you Mubarak" but they went to believe that the demonstration lead to chaos and "fitnah" and Mubarak might be honest, etc. I don't understand how he might be honest and he has been dishonest all his past 30 years, as someone said "democracy can't come at the hands of a dictator"/"reforms can't come at the hands of a corrupt". Some people just want to eat and sleep, they don't want to bother themselves with things like freedom and justice, don't want to pay some price for all this...and those are a good section of who call for "calming down" and believing Mobarak. "People keep living in humiliation for fear of humiliation, living in poverty for fear of poverty" a rough translation for Imam Ali's saying that became very famous these days and I like it much
Views have changed between a day and a night...and not a systematic cumulative effect over the months and years but amazingly in extremely short time...I found it very strange...I agree with everything you said, Hakimah.

 

[Badran]

Who are those famous figures, Badran?
I saw more than once Amr Khaled among the protestors, is he still with the protestors?

I'm not sure about Amr Khaled Peace, i don't think he was there today. However there were other religious figures. The one i'm told was there is Yusuf Al Qaradawi. I also understand that Amr Mosa (not sure if you know him, just in case he is a popular politician) and Khaled Yusuf (film director) was there. The one i saw myself was an artist, a composer named Amar el Sharee'y.

It was basically a group of mixed people from various jobs and positions.

 

[Sahar]

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi is currently in Qatar not Egypt. They conveyed his Friday Prayer speech from Qatar to the crowd in Tahrir SQ.

 

[Badran]

I don't have a problem of having supports for Mubarak. As a person who seeks democracy, I won't deny them the right for protesting.

I think right now is an appropriate time to say a couple of things about this important point of yours. I think this is indeed very important because today we have multiple opinions and positions about the situation in Egypt amongst Egyptians, which is very understandable considering the amount of pressure and confusion put on people in these tough events.

Its important not to become shallow and start calling people names and saying who's good and who's bad and questioning one's loyalty or truthfulness to the cause only based on their opinions that might differ from one's own opinion, as its very easy to do so in such circumstances. I've been guilty of that myself particularly with people who fully support Mubarak. There is a load of emotional stress on people in these events, and they are hearing and seeing countless conflicting opinions and information.

I think though that things will get better, today i heard supposed representatives or examples at least of protesters who are still in Tahrir square, and they seem to be more aware of the complications of the demands, and the need for the least chaotic rout in order to achieve them. For example they were aware of the difficulty arising in Mubarak's immediate departure, as it will raise other problems concerning their other demands. So although they might not represent all or most people in Tahrir square, at least they assured me that there are people there who aren't just there until Mubarak leaves, they are open to more than one possible solution. Other reasons i heard for them being there, is that they're worried about their safety when they leave the square.

 

[Sahar]

Yesterday photos:

I love the second picture much...

 

[maro]

Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi is currently in Qatar not Egypt. They conveyed his Friday Prayer speech from Qatar to the crowd in Tahrir SQ.

The one in the protets was "abd el rahman Yusef Al Qaradawi " ,the son of al qaradawi and the eloquent poet


[youtube]DOJ4vpZXYGw[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOJ4vpZXYGw

I also saw dr. ragheb al sergani , nader al sayed and one of those who present "shababek " on dream T.V. (the one who sits cross leged )

 

[Peace]

Peace, there were much more famous figures; thinkers, writers, scholars and artists among the protesters, taking their side, proud of that beautiful youth and call for what they call for. Thank God so much, it went peacefully today and they proved again that they are civilized and clean people, may God bless them. I am very proud of them and I though that the numbers would be much less today because of the rumors and propaganda of the dirty regime which many people believed but thank God the number reached two millions there and they proved that there are people with clean heads who didn't buy the rumors contrary to some others.

Alhamdulillah!

 

[Peace]

I'm not sure about Amr Khaled Peace, i don't think he was there today. However there were other religious figures. The one i'm told was there is Yusuf Al Qaradawi. I also understand that Amr Mosa (not sure if you know him, just in case he is a popular politician) and Khaled Yusuf (film director) was there. The one i saw myself was an artist, a composer named Amar el Sharee'y.

It was basically a group of mixed people from various jobs and positions.

Thank you Badran. And as Sahar said Sheikh Al Qaradawi can't be there. So it seems that his son was there as maro said.

 

[Peace]

Yesterday photos:

I love the second picture much...

Masha'Allah what a beautiful sight of the protesters praying!!!