Two Boys executed in Iran

[Ulver]

Here's three articles on the event: HERE

Here are two images from the event: One, Two

There seems to be a fair amount of Fog around this subject in terms of:

what were the ages of these two boys?
If the rape indeed was rape?
The age of that third child?
Were the two boys Homosexual?
If so, did that play the main role in their execution?

Well... what do you all think of this?

regardless... from what I've heard, it seems that Iran does execute Homosexuals based on Islamic Law. Apparently they kept that part of the Homosexual Death Penalty Law from the OT.

 

[jamaesi]

regardless... from what I've heard, it seems that Iran does execute Homosexuals based on Islamic Law. Apparently they kept that part of the Homosexual Death Penalty Law from the OT.

Having homosexual sex is punishable with death in most Middle Eastern countries. And they don´t go by the Bible or OT, they go by the Quran and Shariah law.

 

[michel]

Who am I to judge ?........"Having homosexual sex is punishable with death in most Middle Eastern countries"

Presumably that means that they have to stay celibate ? - what an appalling way to have to live.

 

[Melody]

what were the ages of these two boys?
If the rape indeed was rape?
The age of that third child?
Were the two boys Homosexual?
If so, did that play the main role in their execution?

Well... what do you all think of this?

Another quote from the same article: "Before the two youths were executed, each received 228 lashes for theft, disturbing public order and consuming alcohol. "

A little overkill, no? The third child was supposedly 13 by the way.

Even Jesus received only 40 lashes. It is very very hard for me to look kindly on a culture or religion that promotes this type of inhumanity.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Who am I to judge ?........"Having homosexual sex is punishable with death in most Middle Eastern countries"

I certainly hope you're kidding. You are a member of the human community and have every right and responsibility to judge punishing homosexuality by death as abhorent!

 

[jamaesi]

In the culture, being attracted to youth of both sexes is considered normal, but acting on the temptation is a sin. Being homosexual is fine, loving another man is fine, but acting on it and having sex is very bad. Of course, it takes four men (that´s eight women) eyewitnesses to the homosexual act to condemn them for it, and I don´t really like having any kind of sex with a crowd watching and I guess that´s true for a lot of other people, so it´s sort of hard to convict people of homosexuality.

Homosexuality in modern Islamic countries' laws

Same-sex intercourse carries the death penalty in five officially Muslim nations: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, and Yemen.[1] It formerly carried the death penalty in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and in Iraq under a 2001 decree by Saddam Hussein. The legal situation in the United Arab Emirates is unclear. In many Muslim nations, such as Bahrain, Qatar, Algeria or the Maldives, homosexuality is punished with jail time, fines or corporal punishment. In some Muslim-majority nations, such as Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, or Mali, same-sex intercourse is not forbidden by law. However, in Egypt gays have been the victims of laws against "immorality".

In Saudi Arabia, the maximium punishment for homosexuality is public execution, but the government will use other punishments, i.e. fines, jail time and whipping as alternatives, unless it feels that homosexuals are challenging state authority by engaging in a gay rights movement. [2] Iran is perhaps the nation to execute the largest number of its citizens for homosexuality. Since its Islamic revolution in Iran, the Iranian government has executed more than 4000 people charged with homosexual acts. In Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban homosexuality went from a capital crime to one that it punished with fines and prison sentence, and a similar situation seems to have occured in Iraq (see gay rights in Iraq.)

Another thing to be mentioned is that the strict seperation of the sexes drives many young men, who would not define themselves as homosexual, to experiment with others of the same gender...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Good information.

 

[michel]

I certainly hope you're kidding. You are a member of the human community and have every right and responsibility to judge punishing homosexuality by death as abhorent!

But surely I have no right in telling other Countries how to behave - apart from signing petitions ?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But surely I have no right in telling other Countries how to behave - apart from signing petitions ?

First of all, I never suggested that you did. There is a difference between judging a country and telling it how to behave. Please, either ignore my position or engage it, but don't distort it.

Secondly, I believe that you have every right to tell Countries how to behave. What you do not have, except under the most sever circumstances, is the right to dictate that your preferred behavior or punish their abhorent behavior.

 

[Melody]

But surely I have no right in telling other Countries how to behave - apart from signing petitions ?

Michel,
Let's change the location. Do you believe Germany had the right to exterminate all of its Jews without any interference from the world? Yes, I know they happily went about doing just such a thing and the world didn't get involved until Germany started marching through other countries, but still.....did we (the world) have a responsibility (that we ignored) to put a stop to this genocide or were we restricted to writing petitions?

 

[Scuba Pete]

How incredibly sad.

 

[Theodore]

First of all, I never suggested that you did. There is a difference between judging a country and telling it how to behave. Please, either ignore my position or engage it, but don't distort it.

Secondly, I believe that you have every right to tell Countries how to behave. What you do not have, except under the most sever circumstances, is the right to dictate that your preferred behavior or punish their abhorent behavior.

Like many middle eastern countries, Iran is not run by thoughtful and caring people. You can express your outrage as loudly as you want to them but I doubt it will have the slightest effect. They seem to be quite happy with their draconian laws.

In Iraq, homosexuals would just be arrested and never heard from again. No explanation or trial. This is the type of mentality we are dealing with over there.

 

[Valjean]

While I condemn the punishment and executions I'm not surprised by them, and I notice that no-one is questioning the actual culpability of the youths. Sharia can yield some surprisingly unjust sentences.

In some regions, had they raped a girl, they would have received a corporal punishment while the girl would have been buried to her waist and stoned to death by her family and neighbors.

 

[JOSEF THE PROPHET]

Michel, It Is Better For A Homosexual To Refrain From Sodomy Than To Burn In The Hell Fire For Eternity. Besides, Most Practicing Sodomites Are Lucky To Live Past Fifty Years Old.

[EDITTED]

 

[JOSEF THE PROPHET]

I Believe I Must Clarify My Statement.

In The Current World, Homosexuals Cannot Be Punished By Death.

However, Once Jehovah Establishes His Kingdom Upon The Earth, Homosexuality Will Be A Crime Worthy Of Punishment By Death. [EDITTED]

 

[jamaesi]

In some regions, had they raped a girl, they would have received a corporal punishment while the girl would have been buried to her waist and stoned to death by her family and neighbors.

​

Or the girl's own family, her father, her brothers, her cousins, would slaughter her themselves.

​

 

[BUDDY]

I don't know quite what to say. This should definitely go to the top of the list of things that are wrong with Iran. Right up their with Nuclear weapons research, support of terrorism and their treatment of women. And Deut is right. If we have a right to hold an opinion, either as a country or individually, about things such as terrorism and nuclear weapons, certainly we can strive to stop human rights violations.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Completely agree with you.

 

[michel]

Michel,
Let's change the location. Do you believe Germany had the right to exterminate all of its Jews without any interference from the world? Yes, I know they happily went about doing just such a thing and the world didn't get involved until Germany started marching through other countries, but still.....did we (the world) have a responsibility (that we ignored) to put a stop to this genocide or were we restricted to writing petitions?

O.K I get the point; you and Deut are obviously right, in this respect.

Can we hypothesize for a minute though ? The Iraq war; had Bush & Blair not used excuses for WMD's and the rest, what is the difference between us going there and saying,"Now you very naughty Iraquis, you must stop doing that this minute, you are being very naughty", and what we did do ? - the oil, and hidden agendas, I know, but people in Britain - like me - thought we were genuinely trying to rid a country of a tyrant.

Where does that leave us with Zimbabwe - and all the other countries where atrocities are being perpetrated every day ? Where do you draw the line?

 

[Melody]

Can we hypothesize for a minute though ? The Iraq war; had Bush & Blair not used excuses for WMD's and the rest, what is the difference between us going there and saying,"Now you very naughty Iraquis, you must stop doing that this minute, you are being very naughty", and what we did do ? - the oil, and hidden agendas, I know, but people in Britain - like me - thought we were genuinely trying to rid a country of a tyrant.

Where does that leave us with Zimbabwe - and all the other countries where atrocities are being perpetrated every day ? Where do you draw the line?

Michel,
I never supported the Iraq war and always believed Bush was a liar or at the very least deliberately closed his eyes to the truth. In the latter case it makes him just as much a liar since he is in a position that can't afford to be unreasonably biased.

As for countries where atrocities are committed, I thought that was what the UN was for, but it's become just another bureaucracy that is incapable of doing anything more than making whining noises at offending countries.

I see all these countries with human rights violations and yet they still sit as a member of the U.N. I think their U.N. status should be revoked and the other U.N. members should issue sanctions and enforce them. Until that happens...nothing will change and independent countries will take independent action.