PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
It's just that two traditions (Elohist and Yahvist) merged. So one God and two different presentations.
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Two Gods in OT
- Thread starter Teritos
- Start date
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4“What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the pasture and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders, 6comes home, and calls together his friends and neighbors to tell them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my lost sheep!’ 7In the same way, I tell you that there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who do not need to repent. (Lk 15)
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Generally, when using a capital letter for God, one is referring to the one and only Creator.
How do you distinguish between 'God' and 'gods'?
What do you mean by 'persons'?
Relax, I'm not a rabbi, so I can't actually decide these things.
gospelsaves
Member
In mainstream Christianity we don’t believe in two Gods, or three Gods. We believe in ONE God, divinely represented by God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit…AKA the Trinity. Which cannot be fully explained. I would not want serve a God that man could fully explain. After all He is GOD! He created man, and the universe. That would be like an ant trying to comprehend the complexities of a human being. Only from God’s point of view I’m sure it’s laughable, as by definition He is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent.
Anytime in the OT it mentions the Angel of the Lord it is God. Most of us hold to the fact that it is a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus. Whether it is specifically God the Father or God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit is debatable…as again we believe all three are ONE God. We just know that it IS God making an appearance.
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Whose faces does "your faces" refer to?
Just to make that point clear:
John 10:30 (TR)
ἐγὼ καὶ .. ὁ . πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν
I .. and the father one are
And they're one in the same manner that any believer in Jesus and the Father are one:
John 17:20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Are you referring to the documentary hypothesis? If so, it just two different times or/and people. You maybe right in saying presentations, but its just language from two different people. Even Moses is called Elohim. Dont you think?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
the Angel of teh LORD is neither God, nor a second God. He is an angel.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Who do think appeared before Abraham at Mamre? [Genesis 18]
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Three angels. One of them spoke to him on behalf of the LORD.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
That's not actually what it says, though, is it?
JPS Genesis 18:1. 'The LORD appeared to him by the terebinths of Mamre;'
Three men appear and Abraham continues his conversation with the LORD. In verse 22 the men went on to Sodom. Was it all three men? It says 'Abraham remained standing before the LORD'. So, how many men went to Sodom? In Genesis 19:1, it says two angels arrived in Sodom. Where was the third man, the third angel? Was it not the LORD, talking to Abraham?
Teritos
Active Member
did you ever read the full OT?
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Another interesting thing about the conversation between Abraham and the 'third man' at Mamre is the expression 'My Lord' used in Genesis 18:3. By the time the three men visited Abraham at Mamre, he had already established a covenant with God. I believe he already knew the man who appeared before him.
In the NT, John 20, Thomas calls the risen Jesus, 'My Lord and my God.'
In the NT, John 20, Thomas calls the risen Jesus, 'My Lord and my God.'
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Yes. There are also newer hypotheses but what all have in common is that Pentateuch is seen as a compilation of independent narratives.
Presentation in J seems more anthropomorphic.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Well, it says three men, but later describes them as malakhim, messengers, which usually gets translated as angels. God spoke to Abraham THROUGH the angel.
Sir, God has no body, no form. When he wants to appear to us, he does so through an angel, such as when he used the angel of the LORD in the burning bush. But the angel of the LORD is not God himself--he is a messenger.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes. Why do you ask? You think that because I disagree with you that I am not educated? That's kind of arrogant.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
God, to my understanding, is Spirit. Spirit is not visible to man, so to make Himself visible to man, God must make Himself an appearance of some sort. The angel of the Lord, from the passages referenced, speaks as God, and even negotiates as God! If the angel was just a messenger then would he have the authority to decide how many could escape from Sodom and Gomorrah?