U.S. officials plan to kill hundreds of thousands of barred owls to save another species from extinction

[The Hammer]

Then I hope you take into consideration all the ants you may step on as you walk down the sidewalk, and all the germs you kill when you wash your hands, and the bugs that strike your windshield as you drive your car. And if you sleep inside your house, imagine all those hungry mosquitoes you're depriving of a meal! Many will die because you withheld a few drops of blood that could have kept them alive.

I actually do.

Thanks.

 

[Laniakea]

I actually do.

Thanks.

Just don't spend so much time trying to save the insects and bacteria that you overlook human beings.

 

[The Hammer]

Just don't spend so much time trying to save the insects and bacteria that you overlook human beings.

"Human beings are only one of those 8.4 million species. They have no more rights than any other species. All living beings, human and other-than-human, have an equal right to life. Not only do humans have no absolute rights - to take, to control, or to subjugate other forms of life - but they also have extra obligations to practise non-violence, and be humble in the face of the mysterious, glorious, abundant and extraordinary phenomenon of the living world"
--- A Jain Gurudev

 

[The Hammer]

Just don't spend so much time trying to save the insects and bacteria that you overlook human beings.

Meh. I don't count one as better than the other. But again. Thanks for the consideration.

 

[Laniakea]

Meh. I don't count one as better than the other. But again. Thanks for the consideration.

I'm suspicious of anyone that doesn't believe their fellow humans to be any more important than bacteria.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm suspicious of anyone that doesn't believe their fellow humans to be any more important than bacteria.

I'm sure.

 

[Left Coast]

You didn't see where it was mentioned that if you aren't a speciesist, species alone doesn't determine anything about what you are asking? And you didn't see the litany of considerations that would determine something about what you are asking?

You didn't see where I took all those considerations into account, and still had a question at the end?

It's not a yes/no question to begin with.

But it is though. Either you regard the situations as morally equivalent, even after all your caveats, or you don't regard them as morally equivalent.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm suspicious of anyone that doesn't believe their fellow humans to be any more important than bacteria.

Those of us who aren't anthropocentric may well be suspicious of humans who put themselves and their kind on a pedestal. All things are interconnected. Your flourishing depends on the flourishing of countless non-human others. Even if you are an anthropocentrist, failure to understand this is part of why we have the environmental crises we have and a human-induced sixth mass extinction. It is always in your best interest to take care of your community - both ecological and human. You do not exist and flourish without your community and environment. Our existence is a gift granted to us by the earth and its creatures. A gift giver will only tolerate so much disrespect before it stops giving.

Fun fact specific to your complaints about bacteria, though? Read a bit about this here (you would be variously in ill-health or dead without this):

What Is Your Gut Microbiome?

Bacteria and viruses and fungi, oh my! Learn how the many microscopic critters living in your gut affect your health.

my.clevelandclinic.org

But it is though. Either you regard the situations as morally equivalent, even after all your caveats, or you don't regard them as morally equivalent.

Alternatively, I don't believe in this "moral equivalence" concept and don't think about the world in that way. I can count on one hand the number of times I've thought about "moral equivalence" in the last couple decades of my life. Actually, I can count it on zero hands. It's not how I look at things. Again, you are basically asking me about something that doesn't apply to how I view things. You can force that square peg into a round hole if you want, but at that point you've distorted the square peg into something it is not by ignoring that it has corners.

 

[Quintessence]

I actually do.

Thanks.

Yeah, it's sad how some humans respond when I tell the story of what I did when I had ants in my house a couple years ago.

Default anthropocentrist response? Let's murder the entire colony with poison. Dude. No.

I cleaned my house. I slapped down some essential oil blends on the trails they were using. I swept up the ants in my house with a dust pan and put them outside. After a week or two, they left. No genocide needed. But most think I'm the weird one for not genociding an entire ant colony? Dude.

 

[Twilight Hue]

"Human beings are only one of those 8.4 million species. They have no more rights than any other species. All living beings, human and other-than-human, have an equal right to life. Not only do humans have no absolute rights - to take, to control, or to subjugate other forms of life - but they also have extra obligations to practise non-violence, and be humble in the face of the mysterious, glorious, abundant and extraordinary phenomenon of the living world"
--- A Jain Gurudev

I think it's a good thing to have the kind of virtue where there is a qualitative respect for life and cognizant of the preservation of other living things that you encounter. Yet at the same time one would also have to acknowledge that they themselves are unstoppable as a force of nature that as much as we strive to save life , we unwittingly and unavoidably will kill other living things no matter how hard one tries to avoid.

Nature dictates that, and it can be nurturing and kind, but it is also equally indifferent and terrifying, and those qualities can never be separated but intertwined of which is one reason why I revere the yin and yang symbol and my moniker of being "Twilight" .. not good and not bad .. as well as my fondness for the indigenous saying, "That it is not you who owns the land , but it is the land that owns you".

 

[The Hammer]

I think it's a good thing to have the kind of virtue where there is a qualitative respect for life and cognizant of the preservation of other living things that you encounter. Yet at the same time one would also have to acknowledge that they themselves are unstoppable as a force of nature that as much as we strive to save life , we unwittingly and unavoidably will kill other living things no matter how hard one tries to avoid.

Correct. Although idk about unstoppable. As being the only species that has seemingly attempted to wall ourselves off from nature (as domesticated man could never do what his ancestors once did), it is our duty to to reign in our own force, to be that temperance.

Nature dictates that, and it can be nurturing and kind, but it is also equally indifferent and terrifying, and those qualities can never be separated but intertwined of which is one reason why I revere the yin and yang symbol and my moniker of being "Twilight" .. not good and not bad .. as well as my fondness for the indigenous saying, "That it is not you who owns the land , but it is the land that owns you".

You're more dark then light than you care to realize imo.

 

[Left Coast]

Alternatively, I don't believe in this "moral equivalence" concept and don't think about the world in that way. I can count on one hand the number of times I've thought about "moral equivalence" in the last couple decades of my life. Actually, I can count it on zero hands. It's not how I look at things. Again, you are basically asking me about something that doesn't apply to how I view things. You can force that square peg into a round hole if you want, but at that point you've distorted the square peg into something it is not by ignoring that it has corners.

If moral equivalence doesn't apply to your view, why use the word "murder," then, to describe the killing of a bird? Murder is a term in English that has a moral meaning. And it's a word we use only to describe innocent human deaths. Surely you know this. Surely that's the reason you're intentionally using it to apply to non-human killings.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Correct. Although idk about unstoppable. As being the only species that has seemingly attempted to wall ourselves off from nature (as domesticated man could never do what his ancestors once did), it is our duty to to reign in our own force, to be that temperance.

You're more dark then light than you care to realize imo.

You know left hand path is essentially indistinguishable from the right hand path both in philosophy and actions. It's that grey area between extremes where harmony and balance teeter toters here and fro. It's not static but dynamic , so I find myself at times helplessly going in one direction and the other depending on conditions and circumstances, but the desired endeavor is to stay in balance as best as humanly possible. It's why I made sure to put in my signature, Not good and not bad to illustrate my life's disposition.

Perhaps you might think I'm essentially Baphomet incarnate, but it's not always the case than you realize in kind.

To put it in Dungeons and Dragons terms, I'd say my philosophical alignment would likely be chaotic neutral.

 

[The Hammer]

Perhaps you think I'm essentially Baphomet incarnate, but it's not always the case than you realize in kind.

Don't think so highly of yourself.

 

[The Hammer]

You know left hand path is essentially indistinguishable from the right hand path both in philosophy and actions. It's that grey area between extremes where harmony and balance teeter toters here and fro. It's not static but dynamic. But the desired endeavor is to stay in balance as best as humanly possible. It's why I made sure to put in my signature, Not good and not bad.

I understand that and I know you think that's your approach and your pov.

But that is not the aura you give off from my perspective.

You say "neither good nor bad" but often actively engage in conspiratorial thinking, and demonization of groups of others, as a couple examples. Which doesn't strike me as neutral at all.

But again these are my opinions, which don't particularly matter. Only your view of yourself matters.

 

[The Hammer]

Yeah, it's sad how some humans respond when I tell the story of what I did when I had ants in my house a couple years ago.

Default anthropocentrist response? Let's murder the entire colony with poison. Dude. No.

I cleaned my house. I slapped down some essential oil blends on the trails they were using. I swept up the ants in my house with a dust pan and put them outside. After a week or two, they left. No genocide needed. But most think I'm the weird one for not genociding an entire ant colony? Dude.

That's the best way to do it imo too. Just get them out of the house and back outside. I can't be liberal with the essential oils though, as the are toxic to my pets, which often puts a hindrance on deterrence.

I'm currently struggling with a brown marmorated stinkbug problem that comes during the warmer months. They are stubborn, my chickens won't touch them. And I can't seem to keep them at bay. I'm constantly catching and tossing them outside.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I understand that and I know you think that's your approach and your pov.

But that is not the aura you give off from my perspective.

You say "neither good nor bad" but often actively engage in conspiratorial thinking, and demonization of groups of others, as a couple examples. Which doesn't strike me as neutral at all.

But again these are my opinions, which don't particularly matter. Only your view of yourself matters.

Just to be sure it's in the proper perspective it's really your view of me whom you think that the view I have of myself is all that matters.

You need to stay honest about it.

 

[The Hammer]

Just to be sure it's in the proper perspective it's really your view of me whom you think that the view I have of myself is all that matters.

You need to stay honest about it.

??

Edit: I can't read this sentence coherently.

 

[Laniakea]

Yeah, it's sad how some humans respond when I tell the story of what I did when I had ants in my house a couple years ago.

Default anthropocentrist response? Let's murder the entire colony with poison. Dude. No.

I cleaned my house. I slapped down some essential oil blends on the trails they were using. I swept up the ants in my house with a dust pan and put them outside. After a week or two, they left. No genocide needed. But most think I'm the weird one for not genociding an entire ant colony? Dude.

Definition of Genocide: "the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group."

Do you seriously believe ants fit within that description? If so, then I hope nobody contacts the United Nations about me so they can put me on trial for war crimes.

 

[Laniakea]

I think it's a good thing to have the kind of virtue where there is a qualitative respect for life and cognizant of the preservation of other living things that you encounter. Yet at the same time one would also have to acknowledge that they themselves are unstoppable as a force of nature that as much as we strive to save life , we unwittingly and unavoidably will kill other living things no matter how hard one tries to avoid.

Nature dictates that, and it can be nurturing and kind, but it is also equally indifferent and terrifying, and those qualities can never be separated but intertwined of which is one reason why I revere the yin and yang symbol and my moniker of being "Twilight" .. not good and not bad .. as well as my fondness for the indigenous saying, "That it is not you who owns the land , but it is the land that owns you".

I have moss growing on the shingles of my roof right now and my homeowners insurance wants to cancel my policy because of it. Seems that I am required to spray a moss remover on the roof to get rid of the moss.
Maybe I should tell the insurance company that I don't want to be a mass murderer, and will take them to court and sue them if they force me to murder all that moss!
Who knows, I might win if I get a liberal progressive judge.