U.S. shoots 50-60 Tomahawk Missiles at Assad's Airforce

[metis]

BTW, when Obama was president, he said over 40 times that Obama should not get involved in Syria, and some of those statements were made after a gas attack that killed more than what we tragically witnesses a few days ago.

Also, Trump said that Obama can take any military action only after getting the OK from Congress first.

Also, his actions violated the War Powers Resolution that only allows the president to act without congressional consent if it is to defend Americans.

So, how come the Republicans are not whining now?

The Republican Party needs to be renamed the Hypocrites-R-Us Party.

 

[Nakosis]

There is no evidence whatsoever that the US is supporting ISIS, so that is mere nonsense (unless you have some evidence that isn't merely circumstantial). Trump is not trustworthy, and neither are the rebels. It's a mess, no question about it.

It's just another claim about ISIS. However ISIS is apparently happy about the turn of events since Assad was also trying to defeat ISIS.

 

[leibowde84]

Putin and Russia are ambitious, not particularly evil. Not any more so than any of the other major powers.

This I couldn't disagree more with. Putin murders political adversaries, fixes elections, uses physical intimidation, etc.

But I do think that the upcoming conflict in the Middle East is why Putin wanted a weak and inexperienced USA president instead of a hardened battle axe like Godzillary.

This makes sense to me. Plus, he hated Hillary ever since she called him out on fixing his election way back when.

 

[leibowde84]

It's just another claim about ISIS. However ISIS is apparently happy about the turn of events since Assad was also trying to defeat ISIS.

That doesn't support the argument that we are backing ISIS, though. Both Assad and ISIS are adversaries.

 

[columbus]

This I couldn't disagree more with. Putin murders political adversaries, fixes elections, uses physical intimidation, etc.

The USA has it's own sins. Different, but neither are noticeably worse. IMNSHO.
Tom

 

[Nakosis]

That doesn't support the argument that we are backing ISIS, though. Both Assad and ISIS are adversaries.

Wasn't trying to support it.

2013 Trump told Obama not to attack Syria,
"AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA — IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!"

 

[columbus]

Wasn't trying to support it.

2013 Trump told Obama not to attack Syria,
"AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA — IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!"

I think Trump supporters have come to the realization that Trump is not the "tells it like it is" leader they thought he was. He lies and dissembles as much as any other politician and is less skillful at it.
Tom

 

[Akivah]

I think it's too quick to give him too much credit. We'll see what he accomplishes in Syria.

Well, he's got another 3.75 years for demonstrations. So we will see.

 

[suncowiam]

Russia/USSR/Russia has always wanted warm water ports; aligning with Syria will add to their numbers.
The Russian Quest for Warm Water Ports

That's a good point as they are very weak from this point of view militarily.

 

[leibowde84]

The USA has it's own sins. Different, but neither are noticeably worse. IMNSHO.
Tom

What sins match up to what Putin does on a regular basis?

 

[leibowde84]

Wasn't trying to support it.

2013 Trump told Obama not to attack Syria,
"AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA — IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!"

Trump is a moron ... no argument there.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Very true. I agree completely. Apparently Trump warned the Russians before it happened. And, Winston would certainly agree with you.

Well that agreement may be a first! but what fun is that? hopefully we can find something to disagree bitterly on here!

 

[Guy Threepwood]

There was a time in history and only one time that the USA might have could have been a policeman to the world. That would have been just before WW2 ended, even then it would have been messy with a 50/50 chance of working. There was also a time as I was growing up that I believed the USA was morally superior and I believed if we went to war it would be justified, wrong again and I paid a personal price for that one. Zip forward twenty years or more and you are correct. The ME is a not a place for the USA especially when seen as a Christian power by a majority of Islamic citizens. I feel like a Knight of Christendom, and I am sure the young men of ISIS see us as such. In other words the reason we can never win in the ME is we are fighting an IDEOLOGY. Who can fight a belief instilled for a thousand years? (none unless we have a massive army with a solider guarding every fighting age Muslim).

Obama wouldn't say it, and Bush had a Freudian slip about it, and Trump is dumb enough not to care the Muslim youths are full of ..um testosterone and have the ultimate reason to hate us, ie the USA and allies. We represent Christendom, and have everything material they don't have. They do have the before mentioned ideology. And that will be what they they ultimately die for, which is the sad belief in a perverted from of Islamic belief. What about the atrocities? What about the babies, the chemicals the Gas, the horrors? Well, sadly those are not as bad compared to whats going on in other parts of the world.

The most humane and easiest way to protect our own is to completely isolate the western hemisphere and our allies. It worked for over a thousand years back in the day maybe it will work today...... or maybe not.

; {>

I think you touch on something there, the ultimate motive to hate us, - then you split that in two-: religious AND economic motives- if I understand correctly?

I think we might narrow that down a little further...

Qatar, UAE, Bahrain for example are very strictly Islamic, hardly ideal societies by western cultural standards, but embrace western free market principles to some extent, are conspicuously wealthy, and with very little antipathy or threat posed towards the west...

Iraq, Syria, Iran, Yemen on the other hand are similarly Islamic, but explicitly embraced socialism as their economic model to varying degrees- that's what baathist means,..

So are we not fighting the same enemy all along and on all fronts, Nazi Germany, USSR, North Korea, and ME socialists? that's the only common thread running through global conflict, not religion

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Let's turn a blind eye to the world because we live our comfy lives within our borders and imaginary lines.

It's not turning a blind eye. It's acknowledging that our continued support of this regime or that, one state or another, is having a very negative consequence. Global terrorism being one of those consequences. England failed, Russia failed, Europe as a whole tended to fail, why are we continuing to do this? And to add insult to injury, many of those nations didn't even get to draw their "imaginary lines," as England and France took it upon themselves to do that.

I never compared it to a video game so let's not go down that road.

I said the strategy of killing many civilians is something that works in a video game.

If America believes so much in Democracy then it should fight for it not just for itself but for others.

No, we shouldn't. We have no right to tell people how to live and set up their governments. You also have to consider that though we say we are bringing freedom and democracy, we tend to leave wide destruction and piles on dead bodies in our wake. ISIS performed mass executions, America raised a building filled with civilians. They both say they are bringing peace, but to the commoner they only bring the sword. America claimed it was going to bring peace and democracy to Iraq, but it delivered chaos and destruction. Very literally, homosexuals have not had the same level of tolerance that they had under Saddam.

Isn't that hypocritical that one just demands democracy and freedom for oneself but then gives a rats *** for others?

I don't make demands of someone to do as I say in their own home, no.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I thought Sam Harris hit it dead-on when he said we locked in war of ideas. And ideas are bulletproof and bomb resistant.

Just changing this around abit to reflect history:
Thatcher is dumb enough not to care that Irish Catholic youths are full of... um testosterone and have reason to hate England.
Pretty lame that was just as my life was starting, and it seems I'm taking in the lessons far more than those who were around enough to to comprehend and understand the actions and shocks of the Provisional-IRA. He have just a few pages back in history too see how marginalized people sometimes react when someone comes along and offers them a chance to make a difference. We must not view Muslims and recruitment efforts by groups such as ISIS as any different.

I did say the USA could crush any group including the billion+ strong Islamic people and then baby sit the vanquished while our country is bankrupted doing so. The IRA/England thing dealt with far less players that the long history of Christianity vs Islamic belief and greed. hose two great factions have been at it for thousands of years. That history fis why I was suggesting the cost would be too great, not to win the war, but babysitting after the war forever. Yes forever, its forever because an ideology of the scope and scale of Islam and Christendom will last forever, one will not change or convert to the other completely! So that is why I think isolating the west and her allies and making them totally self sufficient and fortress like is the only way we can enjoy a sustainable secure future.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I thought Sam Harris hit it dead-on when he said we locked in war of ideas. And ideas are bulletproof and bomb resistant.

Yes I agree. I , well anyone who is even a causal interest in history can see that all wars never really end or are finished. Even near genocide of the enemy isn't enough to end war. I believe for that reason God of the bible gives such seemingly brutal orders to kill every living thing, children, pets, live, stock etc. And there are other reasons. Scripture hints that the type of enemy god orders vanished may not be entirely human...but that's material for another thread.

Just changing this around abit to reflect history:
Thatcher is dumb enough not to care that Irish Catholic youths are full of... um testosterone and have reason to hate England.

Well they are too fighting for an idea as well and are encouraged by hormones. That's why 17 > 21 year olds make the best soldiers, They don't ask questions and do as they are ordered.

Pretty lame that was just as my life was starting, and it seems I'm taking in the lessons far more than those who were around enough to to comprehend and understand the actions and shocks of the Provisional-IRA. He have just a few pages back in history too see how marginalized people sometimes react when someone comes along and offers them a chance to make a difference. We must not view Muslims and recruitment efforts by groups such as ISIS as any different.

I try to differentiate radicalized violent Muslims from moderate Muslims in my writings. I have no issues with moderate Muslims. As a matter of fact one of my specialist MD's is a beautiful in mind and body young Muslim woman. So I trust them as much as anyone unless they give me a reason not to.

God bless this forum ~

 

[Theweirdtophat]

This is just the same pattern repeating? First Afghanistan, then Iraq and now Syria? Are we just going to go all over the middle east, making wild assumptions and try to find things that never existed like the weapons of mass destruction? Even if Saddam did, which he didn't, what made the US think he was going to use them? Pakistan and North Korea have nukes, too, but we can't allow Iraq and Iran or anyone else to have them? Who gave us the right to decide who gets it and who does not?

Assad is a typical dictator, but he's not an idiot. He wouldn't do this unless it was to his advantage. It never occurred to anyone that this is a set up?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I try to differentiate radicalized violent Muslims from moderate Muslims in my writings. I have no issues with moderate Muslims. As a matter of fact one of my specialist MD's is a beautiful in mind and body young Muslim woman. So I trust them as much as anyone unless they give me a reason not to.

Personally, I've known one Muslim from the Middle East who had some rough culture shock, but other than that I've had no problems or issues with that, and with Western ones tend to have that mutual "outsiders connection" with them. They have also been far less likely than the average Christian* to insist their religious laws be made into state law, and support things such as same-sex marriage.
*By average, I mean the average Midwest Bible Belt Conservative, as that's where I live.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I did say the USA could crush any group including the billion+ strong Islamic people and then baby sit the vanquished while our country is bankrupted doing so. The IRA/England thing dealt with far less players that the long history of Christianity vs Islamic belief and greed. hose two great factions have been at it for thousands of years. That history fis why I was suggesting the cost would be too great, not to win the war, but babysitting after the war forever.

It's the strategies in recruitment I am referring to. The IRA focused on marginalized young, predominately male, Irish Catholics to supply recruits as ISIS is doing the same with marginalized Muslims. We can help to prevent radicalization, or we can send them into the enemies welcoming arms.

 

[leibowde84]

Well that agreement may be a first! but what fun is that? hopefully we can find something to disagree bitterly on here!

Won't take too long, I'm sure. I do enjoy debating with you.