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Uber driver with concealed handgun prevents mass shooting in Chicago

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suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Oh man, you guys are baiting me into this one.

I think we all agree with some form of gun control, right? We don't want "bad" guys with guns and it's okay for "good" folks who are responsible, well-trained, no history of violence, mental incapacities and crime.

One example doesn't set a trend but its a good start. I could give examples where an uncle killed his nephew accidently after killing another man in the heat of the moment and then killed himself. Or another where a drunk driver was killed with a gun because he mowed down a family and killed two of the kids horribly mangling one of the kid.

There are statistics that show countries with strong gun control laws having the least deaths due to guns. This includes Japan and Korea. Is it a strict correlation between the laws and the statistics? I don't know for certain but it's a start in the discussion.

With my last discussion on this, Revoltingest described his long history with guns and sounded very responsible because he is well trained. He showed me that responsible gun control is completely valid so I changed my stance from prohibition. The issue is, how do we get everyone to be as well trained and responsible?
 
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Breathe

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
suncowiam said:
We don't want "bad" guys with guns and it's okay for "good" folks who are responsible, well-trained, no history of violence, mental incapacities and crime.
Click to expand...
That's true - there needs to be a blacklist, and so on. I'd also think a psychological evaluation and even safety classes would be good, too. I'm reminded of the guy who shot accidentally himself at church because the safety was off. (WHY would someone bring a gun to church?! :D )

But of course, "bad" guys are still more likely to get guns even if they're illegal, as criminals rarely care for the law and the criminal underworld still perseveres.

Even in the United Kingdom, gun crime still exists and yet we're not even allowed pepper spray or tasers. We're technically not supposed to be allowed anything that can be used for self-defence. Even if you carry a heavy spoon or a flat rock for self defence and admit it, you're going to be up to your eyeballs in **** (metaphorically speaking). Seriously.

Nobody wants to end up like us, so prohibitions must make sense.
 
P

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
Argument by anecdote doesn't really help, though, does it?

Re gun control in the US, I'm reminded of the old joke about asking for directions in Ireland (which has happened every time I have asked for directions in the Republic.. at least, it happened the first time and I've consciously avoided asking for directions ever since), when the local says "You want to get to <destination>? I wouldn't be starting from here".. it's difficult to know what to do, or even if any control whatsoever is possible over there (other than using two hands) because there're so many guns in circulation even if you were to get rid of 99% of them, there'd still be many millions more.

In contrast, gun crime here in the UK is so infrequent, it's news: you will hear pretty much every instance of a fatal shooting on national TV/radio news - there are a few dozen a year, max. Laws here are excessive (with a classic bit of WTFery, someone who found a gun on the street and took it straight to a police station was arrested for possession of a firearm.. that's how stupid legislation can get), yet I'd still rather be in this environment than the US one. But I don't know how gun control over there could be implemented without turning a large number of gun-loving otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals, which is unlikely to help.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I still say it's not that great. It's fortunate no one was harmed, and the driver isn't being charged, but the solution still lies within preventing a shooting before it happens, not once it has happened.
 
Wirey

Wirey

Fartist
Apex said:
That you are aware of...
Some quick Google searching and you can learn it is not the only one. For example this site attempts to document self-defense cases where a gun was used:
[VIDEO] Concealed Carrying Pharmacist Shoots and Kills Armed Robber, Saves Customers and Staff
Click to expand...

Both of your examples wouldn't even exist if the gun the bad guy had was off the street. I know it's to late to disarm America, but to claim the way to get rid of shooting is more shooting is, well, crazy. There's a reason the rest of the world doesn't feel a need to arm it's citizens, and so far the gub'ment hasn't even taken away my rights.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Wirey said:
One. That's one.
Click to expand...
There are actually many other examples like it, but they seldom hit mainstream news.
It's about drama.
Test.....
Which headline sells more papers?
1) Man shoots perp. An unknown number of people didn't get shot.
2) Man uses assault rifle to shoot 7 people in a Post Office.

Note:
In #2, it's scary to say "assult rifle", but it wasn't one. (They never are.)
 
Wirey

Wirey

Fartist
Revoltingest said:
There are actually many other examples like it, but they seldom hit mainstream news.
It's about drama.
Test.....
Which headline sells more papers?
1) Man shoots perp. An unknown number of people didn't get shot.
2) Man uses assault rifle to shoot 7 people in a Post Office.

Note:
In #2, it's scary to say "assult rifle", but it wasn't one. (They never are.)
Click to expand...

Which feels better?

Man shoots perp, firing 6 shots in downtown corridor.

Nothing happened, everyone went home.

I still own guns, but man, you guys are crazy with them.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Wirey said:
Which feels better?
Man shoots perp, firing 6 shots in downtown corridor.
Nothing happened, everyone went home.
I still own guns, but man, you guys are crazy with them.
Click to expand...
I pick #2.
I like it when nothing happens.
 
S

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
Three identical posts?
I have that happen too.
Ya think a post didn't happen, so ya click post again....still no results...click again.
Then ya see that all of'm took.
Click to expand...

I thought he was adding more cases to his example which all occured the same way in Colorado.
 
S

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Wirey said:
Both of your examples wouldn't even exist if the gun the bad guy had was off the street. I know it's to late to disarm America, but to claim the way to get rid of shooting is more shooting is, well, crazy. There's a reason the rest of the world doesn't feel a need to arm it's citizens, and so far the gub'ment hasn't even taken away my rights.
Click to expand...

This is my fundamental position but it aint gonna happen in US.

So we need to control who owns the guns...

Now if someone wants to argue how innate guns are to the human race, I gots lots of stuff to say about that.
 
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