muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
I don't know about that..
How does the Ukrainian govt. deal with conscientious objectors?
How many Ukrainians want the war to continue, due to Zelensky's (and the west's) "no compromise" stance?
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UK electorate's views on US Election.
- Thread starter Altfish
- Start date
How does the Ukrainian govt. deal with conscientious objectors?
How many Ukrainians want the war to continue, due to Zelensky's (and the west's) "no compromise" stance?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Mmm .. and refugees also "want" to live in EU countries, but that doesn't matter..
..send them anywhere, but not the EU.
What does that have to do with what I said? How does Russia deal with conscientious objectors, and how many Russians want the war to continue? And what would any of that have to do with Ukraine's determination to protect itself from being torn apart.
I've no doubt that during Hitler's bombing of Britain, many English weren't happy about it, and wanted the war to end. But they weren't prepared to give up and surrender themselves to Germany. And yes, many, many of them died.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
..but what is "Ukraine's determination", if not its people?
There are no elections during war .. and I doubt that opposition leaders have any say.
Not the same thing at all. Britain has never been part of the Soviet union, nor was it the first
nation to be attacked by the extreme right-wing army.
So what are you advocating? Ukraine should just hand itself over to Russia. Maybe say, "Hey, Vlad, any of our people you don't want, just toss them in the trash compactor, it's okay by us!"..but what is "Ukraine's determination", if not its people?
There are no elections during war .. and I doubt that opposition leaders have any say.
Not the same thing at all. Britain has never been part of the Soviet union, nor was it the first
nation to be attacked by the extreme right-wing army.
What would you do if you were elected the leader of your nation, and another nation attacked you? Would you be the leader and try to defend your country, or just hand everybody and everything over -- and maybe ask for a pension for yourself from your conqueror?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Well I don't expect that Mr Putin cares about what you want.
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
The EU takes in lots of refugees. But this has nothing to do with what I said.
At all.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Don't be so dramatic .. of course not.
I am suggesting diplomacy instead of more escalation.
I believe that Britain had a coalition govt. in WWII.
According to a February 2020 poll by again Razumkov Centre, more than 70% of respondents said they rather or completely did not trust political parties.
The Ukrainian oligarchs play a key role in sponsoring of political parties and participation in every day politics.
Political_parties_in_Ukraine - Wikipedia
This idea that western democracy is the only credible, moral system is false.
I see in the US, for example, that wealth is the main factor of who obtains power.
I find that hypocritical myself.
And diplomacy means what, exactly? National leaders sit down and barter away lands and property -- and the humans who live and depend on them?
As a Humanist, the right of every individual to make their own choices for their own lives (so long as they don't harm others) is my highest priority. I am aware that that priority is lower (often much lower) on the priority list of religious adherents.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Not directly, no .. but at the end of the day, it is all about inequality and wealth, rather
than political preference and democracy.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Well, as the UN does not seem to have much weight in today's world, there are very few
alternatives. Escalating conflict means WWIII, so that is not an option.
If the US did not spend so much money on its military budget (that does not mean none!),
maybe Nethanyahu and Zelensky would behave differently.
Altfish
Veteran Member
More like a success for Putin
Ukraine and Russia are identical cultures.Give them a bit of yours then.
It's as if Sardinia was taken by Spain...I mean...who cares.
Sardinians feel like Spaniards...sometimes.
When it deals with incredibly similar cultures, it means that the war was imported from afar.
Unlikely
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
OK so Ukraine has not even been a country for very long. And Zelenskyy was a comedian before he became the President or Prime Minister or whatever he says he is. They haven't even had elections in years and years, so who really knows what the individuals in that made up country want now.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It's been around longer than you and it's just as made up than USA (all countries are made up).
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Then why are Christians and Muslims their own worst enemies?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
They've made it clear they'd rather fight and die than live under a dictator.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Actually most of what is now Ukraine has been around since about 1991. I actually predate it.