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UK uses Covert Propaganda to stop Muslims joining ISIS

Is the UK government right to do this?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 44.4%
  • Yes, it's doupleplus good!

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Yes, I had my doubts but I think the Soma is starting to kick in now

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hang on, what year is it?

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Are you sitting comfortably? good.

As we all know, the NSA and GCHQ is watching our every move on the internet, as part of the new effort by the government to listen to the people so the politicians don't have to.

And we are all very grateful for this... aren't we?

*mixture of nodding and resentful mumbles*

It turns out that the UK government is also trying to change the conversation as well by convertly targeting young british Muslims particularly males, aged 15 to 39 who are considered most susceptable to the risk of extremism and terrorism. This is inorder to bring about “attitudinal and behavioural change” and is going at an “industrial pace and scale” by the british government outsourcing these tasks to the Research, Information and Communications Unit (Ricu) which then uses front organisations such as "Help for Syria" and "The Truth about ISIS". There activities include distributing leaflets, organising events at schools and universities including face-to-face conversation with thousands at university freshers fairs, producing dozens of websites, leaflets, videos, films, Facebook pages, Twitter feeds and online radio content, and to support community groups that are promoting moderation.

The best bit is, this is all "covert" so no-one knows they are part of a government program to achieve "attitudinal and behavioural change". Of course, this isn't propaganda because it's "strategic communications" as “the systematic and coordinated use of all means of communication to deliver UK national security objectives by influencing the attitudes and behaviours of individuals, groups and states”.

Do you think this is a highly innovative way to tackle extremism and respond to the threat of terrorism, or an infringement on civil rights with some dodgey precedents and maybe is a bit racist for targeting Muslims?
 

Taylor Seraphim

Angel of Reason
Are you sitting comfortably? good.

As we all know, the NSA and GCHQ is watching our every move on the internet, as part of the new effort by the government to listen to the people so the politicians don't have to.

And we are all very grateful for this... aren't we?

*mixture of nodding and resentful mumbles*

It turns out that the UK government is also trying to change the conversation as well by convertly targeting young british Muslims particularly males, aged 15 to 39 who are considered most susceptable to the risk of extremism and terrorism. This is inorder to bring about “attitudinal and behavioural change” and is going at an “industrial pace and scale” by the british government outsourcing these tasks to the Research, Information and Communications Unit (Ricu) which then uses front organisations such as "Help for Syria" and "The Truth about ISIS". There activities include distributing leaflets, organising events at schools and universities including face-to-face conversation with thousands at university freshers fairs, producing dozens of websites, leaflets, videos, films, Facebook pages, Twitter feeds and online radio content, and to support community groups that are promoting moderation.

The best bit is, this is all "covert" so no-one knows they are part of a government program to achieve "attitudinal and behavioural change". Of course, this isn't propaganda because it's "strategic communications" as “the systematic and coordinated use of all means of communication to deliver UK national security objectives by influencing the attitudes and behaviours of individuals, groups and states”.

Do you think this is a highly innovative way to tackle extremism and respond to the threat of terrorism, or an infringement on civil rights with some dodgey precedents and maybe is a bit racist for targeting Muslims?

Is there any evidence of this occurring?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I would really have to see more to judge if they are going about it in a good way or not. From this, it seems as if it is an attempt to stop their own from joining the enemy, to prevent having to use arms against their own. ISIS is an enemy of the West, and the best way to win is not to fight, but to cause such disruption to prevent fighting. Not to destroy them with bombs and bullets, but to casts doubts and deceptions and destroy them from within. If such a move proves effective, it is a good move. But only time will tell. However, considering the threat of the IRA and P-IRA it would seem England is at a position to have best learned how to ward off potential recruits from joining (and no doubt many in Parliament know and remember those days). At the minimum, it is certainly a better move than declaring you're going to ban all Muslims from entering, which only serves to enforce and affirm the anti-Muslim sentiments of the West. It certainly wont be enough to stop ISIS, but even to attempt to reach out and prevent people from joining is at least an attempt at a step in the right direction. I doubt it's that covert, as the entire world knows by now, but it at least is attempting to plant seeds of doubt, which will manifest as people deciding to not join after all, or bringing the pollen of doubt to germinate the ranks of ISIS if they do join.
Really, I wish I could look over their entire plan to better judge it. It's potentially a very effective tactic, but only if they go about it in the right ways.
 

Raahim

مكتوب
Critical age 15-39, so basically everyone? o_O
Terrorists are more political issue than religious because they have nothing to do with the teachings of the Quran.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Critical age 15-39, so basically everyone? o_O
Terrorists are more political issue than religious because they have nothing to do with the teachings of the Quran.

Really?
Why to radical muslims do murderous acts in the name of allah?
Why is it said that if a muslim dies for Allah they go to muslim heaven
and get 70 virgins?
What anyone would do with 70 virgins is beyond me?
Sex in muslim heaven?
 

Raahim

مكتوب
Really?
Why to radical muslims do murderous acts in the name of allah?
Why is it said that if a muslim dies for Allah they go to muslim heaven
and get 70 virgins?
What anyone would do with 70 virgins is beyond me?
Sex in muslim heaven?

1) Why did/do Christians kill in the name of Jesus? Because every twisted mind needs some justification for their immoral acts.
2) Quran doesn't have anywhere a verse on getting 70 virgins, especially if you commit suicide. You're simply ignorant on that topic.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Terrorists are more political issue than religious because they have nothing to do with the teachings of the Quran.

Aside from the multiple verses that call for the killing of unbelievers, yes.


1) Why did/do Christians kill in the name of Jesus? Because every twisted mind needs some justification for their immoral acts.


Tuquoque fallacy - barbarous acts of Christians don't excuse or negate barbarous acts of Muslims. Why do Christians do it? Probably because Christianity, like Islam, portrays itself in a militaristic context - their followers are at war with the forces of evil in the world and their scriptures portray this existence as a fight between God and the Devil.


2) Quran doesn't have anywhere a verse on getting 70 virgins, especially if you commit suicide. You're simply ignorant on that topic.

It doesn't mention a number, no. But it does mention that those who fight and give their lives in Allah's name will be richly rewarded.
  • Surah 47:4-6
  • Surah 52:17-29
  • Surah 44:51-57
  • Surah 78:31-36
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Really?
Why to radical muslims do murderous acts in the name of allah?
Why is it said that if a muslim dies for Allah they go to muslim heaven
and get 70 virgins?
What anyone would do with 70 virgins is beyond me?
Sex in muslim heaven?

I've often thought the same. Want to really entice men? Make it 72 wanton sluts with self worth issues.

I heard a comedian joke that the muslim terrorist were in for a rude awakening when they reach heaven. Their 72 virgins are actually 72 nuns in full habits with ruler at the ready.

Oh and here is a link to a good story on the sources of the whole virgin thing...

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5
 

MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
1) Why did/do Christians kill in the name of Jesus? Because every twisted mind needs some justification for their immoral acts.
2) Quran doesn't have anywhere a verse on getting 70 virgins, especially if you commit suicide. You're simply ignorant on that topic.
Qoran also does not inform how to stand for sallah,but you do it. There is not even one clue how to do it in Qoran.

Truth always hurts.
 

Raahim

مكتوب
Aside from the multiple verses that call for the killing of unbelievers, yes.




Tuquoque fallacy - barbarous acts of Christians don't excuse or negate barbarous acts of Muslims. Why do Christians do it? Probably because Christianity, like Islam, portrays itself in a militaristic context - their followers are at war with the forces of evil in the world and their scriptures portray this existence as a fight between God and the Devil.




It doesn't mention a number, no. But it does mention that those who fight and give their lives in Allah's name will be richly rewarded.
  • Surah 47:4-6
  • Surah 52:17-29
  • Surah 44:51-57
  • Surah 78:31-36

The war between good & evil reflects within a person, not a material war. All material wars are led by politics and someone's gain, it's very illogical that Christians even go to war when Jesus by their teachings was so kind, loving, compassionate, etc. They are hypocrites.
I'm not sure what Quran you were reading, but there is no calling to kill unbelievers outside the war. You really think that God would say such a thing?

Surah 47:4-6
So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

Surah 78:31
There is the huge problem when non-Muslims (or even Muslims) read the translation of Quran only and don't study the ayas and surahs in their full true meaning, they see what they want to see and use it against many. That's the reason why Arabic language is necessary for Muslims.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Terrorists are more political issue than religious because they have nothing to do with the teachings of the Quran.
This is such a tired line and no-one who's ever studied Islam in depth believes this. Also, saying it's political doesn't get you out of the hot water, because Islam is a political faith. It controls all aspects of the society it's a majority religion in.
 

Raahim

مكتوب
This is such a tired line and no-one who's ever studied Islam in depth believes this. Also, saying it's political doesn't get you out of the hot water, because Islam is a political faith. It controls all aspects of the society it's a majority religion in.

What is the definition of "political faith" and how does it control all aspects of the society?
Have you spent 15 to 30 years studying the Quran and Islam so you know that it states violence? :D
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
What is the definition of "political faith" and how does it control all aspects of the society?
Have you spent 15 to 30 years studying the Quran and Islam so you know that it states violence? :D

I've spent a good five years researching it and it doesn't take a great amount of mental effort to get through the Qur'an, sorry to say. It is pretty straight forward, especially with a good tafsir and the context via ahadith. @A Greased Scotsman pointed out some of the things I would have been likely to mention along my way.

A political faith is one that has a hand in politics and law and controls the state. Islam does this by means of Sharia, giving Christians and Jews Dhimmi status and making them pay jizya, by creating blasphemy laws, restricting media (Muhammad had poets killed) etc. This is political and has no place in a Western, non-Muslim society.

So when the people who killed the Danish and French cartoonists did what they did, they were just following the actions of your prophet. He killed those who made satire, too. So yes, things like this have everything to do with Islam, Muhammad and the Qur'an. Muhammad also terrorised Meccan caravans and looted them. Does any of this sound familiar?
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
All material wars are led by politics and someone's gain, it's very illogical that Christians even go to war when Jesus by their teachings was so kind, loving, compassionate, etc. They are hypocrites. k
Or they simply read the Bible differently.
I've heard Xians make good sounding arguments for self defense, including war.
But the ones who wage optional wars.....I'll agree they're hypocrites.
 

Raahim

مكتوب
I've spent a good five years researching it and it doesn't take a great amount of mental effort to get through the Qur'an, sorry to say. It is pretty straight forward, especially with a good tafsir and the context via ahadith. @A Greased Scotsman pointed out some of the things I would have been likely to mention along my way.

A political faith is one that has a hand in politics and law and controls the state. Islam does this by means of Sharia, giving Christians and Jews Dhimmi status and making them pay jizya, by creating blasphemy laws, restricting media (Muhammad had poets killed) etc. This is political and has no place in a Western, non-Muslim society.

So when the people who killed the Danish and French cartoonists did what they did, they were just following the actions of your prophet. He killed those who made satire, too. So yes, things like this have everything to do with Islam, Muhammad and the Qur'an. Muhammad also terrorised Meccan caravans and looted them. Does any of this sound familiar?

In Arabic language? :eek:
Would Judaism count as political religion since they too have their own law they need to follow when doing business, etc?
They (the terrorists) just had a "good justification" to do what they did, also there should be some limit to what is considered funny and not.
I'm familiar with what you're referring but again proper source would lead you to proper knowledge, here it is to help you out. :D
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
In Arabic language? :eek:
Would Judaism count as political religion since they too have their own law they need to follow when doing business, etc?
They (the terrorists) just had a "good justification" to do what they did, also there should be some limit to what is considered funny and not.
I'm familiar with what you're referring but again proper source would lead you to proper knowledge, here it is to help you out. :D
Of course not in Arabic. If the Qur'an is so called perfect and universal it should be perfect in every language. So that doesn't work either. Have you studied the Torah in ancient Hebrew and the Koine Greek of the New Testament?

I'm giving up debating with you. It's pointless. Islam and Muhammad are perfect no matter what and we're all wrong.

Do you realise how infuriating it is?

Bye.
 

Raahim

مكتوب
Of course not in Arabic. If the Qur'an is so called perfect and universal it should be perfect in every language. So that doesn't work either. Have you studied the Torah in ancient Hebrew and the Koine Greek of the New Testament?

I'm giving up debating with you. It's pointless. Islam and Muhammad are perfect no matter what and we're all wrong.

Do you realise how infuriating it is?

Bye.

That's the issue with translations, you'll never have 100% correct translation in every sense. No I did not, but I did read with word-to-word comments and I've been on many courses of local rabbi on Torah so I have a more in-depth view on Torah. Some Muslims won't agree with me, but Muhammad ﷺ was human and we are far from perfect. Quran is perfect, so was Torah before it got corrupt. I am just real, that's all. People should be educated more on Islam outside the Judaism or Christian-biased sources because it's obvious they will defend their own and portrait it as something evil, etc.
 
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