• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Ukip banned from gay "pride" march...

Ultimatum

Classical Liberal
I don't even understand why you would be so "proud" in your sexuality that you would actually march down a f*****g street--I would certainly never display my "straightness" by holding a sign and shouting out loud. But, nevertheless:

Ukip banned from gay pride march after party's inclusion stokes anger | Politics | The Guardian

Pride in London aims to be an inclusive event.

Organisers said the decision was not politically motivated.

We aim to unite our community, not divide it..

Hilarious.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
It's because of UKIP's stance against full rights for gay people. I would not want somebody who denied rights to black people marching in a Black Pride parade.

As for the reasons for gay pride, and pride overall within the LGBTQQI community, insofar as it exists, it's because we have been and are being actively discriminated against for a good long time now. So it's a matter of standing up against that, and trying to establish respect.

EDIT: Disclaimer, I do think they should have been allowed in the march.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Last time I checked UKIP had gay members. Could be wrong.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't even understand why you would be so "proud" in your sexuality that you would actually march down a f*****g street--I would certainly never display my "straightness" by holding a sign and shouting out loud. But, nevertheless:
The pride is more from not allowing society to tell us to shut up, go back in the closet, and pretend to be who we're not so the bigots of the world don't have to deal our ickiness.
 

Ultimatum

Classical Liberal
It's because of UKIP's stance against full rights for gay people.

Name one homophobic policy.

it's because we have been and are being actively discriminated against for a good long time now.

You're not actively discriminated against in the eyes of the law anymore, however. It is now absolutely and totally socially acceptable to be LGBT.

So it's a matter of standing up against that,

Except that they've just discriminated against gay people, themselves...

and trying to establish respect.

Probably a good idea to be totally inclusive then, no?
 

Kirran

Premium Member
Name one homophobic policy.



You're not actively discriminated against in the eyes of the law anymore, however. It is now absolutely and totally socially acceptable to be LGBT.



Except that they've just discriminated against gay people, themselves...



Probably a good idea to be totally inclusive then, no?

Homophobic policy - opposition to gay marriage.

Legally, you're right. Socially, no. Gay is still used as a pejorative term. People still have to come out, as everybody's assumed to be straight by default. There are still gay people getting beaten up for being gay etc. Much higher suicide rates, more commonly victims of myrder. But yes, it's improved hugely, it has, and I acknowledge that.

I think UKIP should have been included in the march
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I don't even understand why you would be so "proud" in your sexuality that you would actually march down a f*****g street--I would certainly never display my "straightness" by holding a sign and shouting out loud. But, nevertheless:

Ukip banned from gay pride march after party's inclusion stokes anger | Politics | The Guardian







Hilarious.

Has Ukip retracted or made amends for the extended and long string of homophobia in its ranks? I wasn't aware they became a party that has changed its platform officially in support of same sex marriage rights, same sex parental adoption rights, and protection from discrimination and harassment for LGTBQ people.

As someone mentioned earlier....if the KKK began allowing blacks and Jews to be members of its organization, and then requested to be a part of local Black Lives Matter movements, I would also be skeptical of their motives in spite of having a few blacks and Jews as the members it historically has sought to eliminate from the community through intimidation and fear tactics.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
You're not actively discriminated against in the eyes of the law anymore, however. It is now absolutely and totally socially acceptable to be LGBT.

No, it isn't. When I hear conversations of people who discuss how they've become so progressive because they'll only "beat ***s up just a little bit instead of killing them"....there remains a lot of incentive to remain in the closet around here.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
No, it isn't. When I hear conversations of people who discuss how they've become so progressive because they'll only "beat ***s up just a little bit instead of killing them"....there remains a lot of incentive to remain in the closet around here.

It is perhaps true that the situation's a bit better in the UK. But still nowhere vaguely near completely OK.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
It is perhaps true that the situation's a bit better in the UK. But still nowhere vaguely near completely OK.

If I hear celebrations from fellow Brits that homophobia and biphobia are considered as antiquated socially and legally as public executions by beheading, then I'll consider the statement of "absolutely totally socially acceptable to be LGBT" to have merit.

Otherwise, it's only socially acceptable to be LGBT in the U.K. as much as it's socially acceptable to beat up someone who is LGBT who had the hard luck of flirting with the wrong gender.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
If I hear celebrations from fellow Brits that homophobia and biphobia are considered as antiquated socially and legally as public executions by beheading, then I'll consider the statement of "absolutely totally socially acceptable to be LGBT" to have merit.

Otherwise, it's only socially acceptable to be LGBT in the U.K. as much as it's socially acceptable to beat up someone who is LGBT who had the hard luck of flirting with the wrong gender.

I don't disagree at all.

That it's even any kind of issue is absurd.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You're not actively discriminated against in the eyes of the law anymore, however. It is now absolutely and totally socially acceptable to be LGBT.
We (and, by "we," I mean the GBLT community) wish.
You apparently missed it when I linked the hundreds of trans-related murders that have happened. Just this year alone there have been at least 11 transwomen killed. One of those happened in San Fransico, and another involved the father killing the victim, and the father telling the police that "the cult" did it, and by "cult," he meant a local trans support group. In all states except California gay and trans panic is a legally acceptable defense to use when someone kills someone who is gay or trans.
If it was "totally socially acceptable," I wouldn't be so anxious about coming out to my own family, who are prejudiced against homosexuals (with the exception of my mom) and transsexuals (my mom said some very nasty things about a transwoman she used to work with).
If you think it's totally acceptable, I challenge you to put on makeup, a wig if you have short hair, a women's shirt and jeans, and go out in public. If it's so acceptable, this should not pose any challenge or risk to you. Of course you may be wondering why you would do that if it doesn't appeal to you, but if it's so acceptable, what harm could possibly come of it?
 

Ultimatum

Classical Liberal
One gay member doesnt change a homophobic party.

Good try--there's a whole community of Ukip LGBTQ members.

Homophobic policy - opposition to gay marriage.

UKIP Statement
Why don't you educate yourself and read their actual statement, instead of regurgitating the idiocy that is reported by the media:

Nothing about this Bill has alleviated our concerns over whether individuals or religious institutions will be adequately protected from legal contests against their stance on same sex marriage.

Such legal contests could end up in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. With only one example of case history directly relating to same sex marriage, it is impossible to predict how future judgments would go.

The real issue here is that final judgments would be made by judges in Strasbourg and could not be overturned by the UK. The matter would be entirely out of British hands.

A lot of the debate on same sex marriage actually centres on the definition and propriety of the term “marriage” and how various individuals and institutions take ownership of and interpret that term. For the Church of England the word defines a contract between a man and woman. For many in society and across the world, the application is far broader. As a party we are not in any way opposed to civil partnerships. Indeed we are the only party to believe that transferable married tax allowance should be made available to couples in civil partnerships and that they should be on an equal footing with traditional marriages.

We are more than happy for people who wish to define themselves within society as “married” to do so, however we wholly disagree with the intrusion of the Government on a religious institution’s definition of the term marriage, whatever that religion may be.

Where the Bill purports to protect the individuals and religious institutions, it is our fear that via legal interference, quite the reverse is true.

The issue is not the clean-cut black and white debate that is being portrayed in the media. It raises a variety of challenging questions ranging from the definitions of consummation of marriage to adultery, which will lead to a Gordian knot of legal implications and difficulties likely to wind up in a court in Strasbourg to which British law is fully subservient and over which Britain bears no control.

It is expressly for these reasons that we believe the Bill is rather cynically being used as a popularity boost and a distraction from other issues, when in fact there is far more at stake than meets the eye.

What Ukip are trying to do is allow for religious institutions who do not want to marry homosexuals to continue to do so, because if gay marriage was legalised, the ECHR would totally force the unwilling institutions of this country to go ahead with these gay marriages. They're advocating keeping government out of marriage altogether, and recognising everybody equally in law and practice under civil partnership rules.

It's basically a middle-finger to the EU.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Gay people have been battling for years against homophobic's, its getting better over the years, and why does it not deserve a celebration of showing other gays out there that they are winning the battle, good on them, you don't have to go and watch.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
What Ukip are trying to do is allow for religious institutions who do not want to marry homosexuals to continue to do so, because if gay marriage was legalised, the ECHR would totally force the unwilling institutions of this country to go ahead with these gay marriages.
Change the word 'gay/homosexual' to 'black/negro' and we're back in the 1950/60s.
"My church don't wanna marry them blacks"..."Ok, that's fine"

Only IT IS NOT
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Change the word 'gay/homosexual' to 'black/negro' and we're back in the 1950/60s.
"My church don't wanna marry them blacks"..."Ok, that's fine"

Only IT IS NOT
Over something like that, I'd rather give them the time they need to change their mind on their own accord.
Forcing them is a tremendous confirmation bias, and it feeds their flames and gives them ammo to use when they say we are trying to "force" them to accept gay marriage.
Yes, it's still discrimination, but outside of their church the effects are negligible, and certainly not strong enough to confirming a suspicion of theirs that should not brought into reality.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Name one homophobic policy.

You're not actively discriminated against in the eyes of the law anymore, however. It is now absolutely and totally socially acceptable to be LGBT.

Not actively discriminated against? Did you know that in at least 23 states in the US it is legal to fire someone based solely off of their sexual orientation, or gender identity? I don't know how it is in EU, but that's just here.
 
Top