Ukraine weapon and war tactics testing?

[Nimos]

I wonder how it will fare against the partially automated Russian T14? Far as I know, Russia hasn't deployed any in the Ukraine.

I think your right. It's an opportunity for testing war technology in real battlefield conditions. With automation and ai, it's going to be a very frightening future ahead as it's only going to get worse this point foreword I think.

Its a good question, im by no way a military/weapon expert. But it just seems to me like tanks and vehicles in general are insanely vulnerable in modern warfare. Half the time I don't even think they realize they are under fire before its to late, sort of like "animals" caught in a trap. If you watch some of the videos, it must be a freaking nightmare.

Viewer discretion:

Where are they going to hide or even get away when all the weapons used are almost pin point accuracy shot from out of their line of sight.

I don't know how expensive a tank is, but its probably not cheap, so if you can take it out with a small drone or long range artillery with guided rockets from 70 km or whatever away, then its going to get expensive very fast, not only in material but also manpower. And it doesn't seem like they have any good defensive measurement against these drones.

Personally I think, I would prefer being on foot to be honest and not sit in one of those.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Its a good question, im by no way a military/weapon expert. But it just seems to me like tanks and vehicles in general are insanely vulnerable in modern warfare. Half the time I don't even think they realize they are under fire before its to late, sort of like "animals" caught in a trap. If you watch some of the videos, it must be a freaking nightmare.

...

I don't know how expensive a tank is, but its probably not cheap, so if you can take it out with a small drone or long range artillery with guided rockets from 70 km or whatever away, then its going to get expensive very fast, not only in material but also manpower. And it doesn't seem like they have any good defensive measurement against these drones.

Personally I think, I would prefer being on foot to be honest and not sit in one of those.

Do you want the fast answer? Combined arms for not just the close front near the front line, but the deep front. If you can archive that, tanks has a positive part to play.
Or tell me if you want the long answer.

 

[Nimos]

Do you want the fast answer? Combined arms for not just the close front near the front line, but the deep front. If you can archive that, tanks has a positive part to play.
Or tell me if you want the long answer.

Yes the long answer

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes the long answer

Okay, we start before gunpowder and limit it to the following Eurasian classes. Horse archers, archers, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, sword infantry, spear infantry and light infantry.
So which is best? Well, it depends on the terrain, temperature/weather and the composition of enemy forces.

Take a force of 50/50 heavy sword infantry and archers and pit it against in open terrain and fair weather double the amount of light infantry; small shield, no top armour and not top weapons. The former would win.
Now substitute the light infantry with a force of heavy lance cavalry of half the size. They would win, because the archers can't hurt them as well as with the light infantry and the swordsmen have no defence against the lances. And the cavalry can outmaneuver the other force and thus attack the most vulnerable place.

Okay, this is a version of rock, scissors and paper with more categories, but that is the basics even to day. No single weapon system can defeat all others, but only some and are vulnerable to others. (Forget nukes, because that is different.)
So with right combination of other forces the tank including the right protective countermeasures has one thing on the direct front line that no other weapon system can do. A high caliber mobile gun that can fire fast at direct targets in line of sight and with protection against small fire and artillery (in some sense).

All war including even old types of weapons are in effect against some weapon type and countermeasure against that weapon type. And no single weapons type rules all types of fight as the best.
We can go even deeper if you like.

 

[Nimos]

Okay, we start before gunpowder and limit it to the following Eurasian classes. Horse archers, archers, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, sword infantry, spear infantry and light infantry.
So which is best? Well, it depends on the terrain, temperature/weather and the composition of enemy forces.

Take a force of 50/50 heavy sword infantry and archers and pit it against in open terrain and fair weather double the amount of light infantry; small shield, no top armour and not top weapons. The former would win.
Now substitute the light infantry with a force of heavy lance cavalry of half the size. They would win, because the archers can't hurt them as well as with the light infantry and the swordsmen have no defence against the lances. And the cavalry can outmaneuver the other force and thus attack the most vulnerable place.

Okay, this is a version of rock, scissors and paper with more categories, but that is the basics even to day. No single weapon system can defeat all others, but only some and are vulnerable to others. (Forget nukes, because that is different.)
So with right combination of other forces the tank including the right protective countermeasures has one thing on the direct front line that no other weapon system can do. A high caliber mobile gun that can fire fast at direct targets in line of sight and with protection against small fire and artillery (in some sense).

All war including even old types of weapons are in effect against some weapon type and countermeasure against that weapon type. And no single weapons type rules all types of fight as the best.
We can go even deeper if you like.

I agree that you need a combination.

The problem is that, at least from the footage that I linked and I have seen, is that it doesn't seem like neither the soldiers or the tanks have any effective ways of spotting or dealing with these drones.

From what I can see they are using or testing some systems for dealing with these things.

One is called Iron dome:

And the other one is a Laser weapon called Iron beam:

But it doesn't seem like those are something that you just move around with ease, but maybe this will eventually be the solution, if they can fit them on tanks or support vehicles somehow.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I agree that you need a combination.

The problem is that, at least from the footage that I linked and I have seen, is that it doesn't seem like neither the soldiers or the tanks have any effective ways of spotting or dealing with these drones.

From what I can see they are using or testing some systems for dealing with these things.

One is called Iron dome:

...

And the other one is a Laser weapon called Iron beam:

...

But it doesn't seem like those are something that you just move around with ease, but maybe this will eventually be the solution, if they can fit them on tanks or support vehicles somehow.

Even self-propelled anti-drone, -artillery and -missile is not enough.
Here is just the concepts in general. You need command, control, communication, awareness of enemy weapons.
To do that, you need to suppress any radar, airforce and anti-air. When you have done that you need the ability to conduct anti-artillery and anti-missile battery missions. and suppress drones. Now we are getting there as now you can really deal damage to the front line and the rear as interdiction of supplies.
Now comes the integration of own air, missiles, artillery, drones, active radar, infantry (mechanized), tanks and their support
vehicles.
This is the ideal and now comes the deep battle. You find at least 2 weak spots, breakthrough and incircle the enemy troops between the breakthroughs. Then add air-mobile troops and you have won a battle. Now when you run into a big enough city or town, you surround it and attrition down the defends, while preventing the enemy to link up from the outside.
Repeat until you have won the war.

And this is just land war.