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Ukranian bishop asks Francis to reconsider

pearl

Well-Known Member
VATICAN CITY (CNS) — The head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church asked Pope Francis to scrap plans to have a Ukrainian woman and a Russian woman carry the cross together during the pope’s Way of the Cross service at Rome’s Colosseum April 15.

Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, major archbishop of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, said April 12, “I consider such an idea untimely, ambiguous and such that it does not take into account the context of Russia’s military aggression against Ukraine.”

For Eastern Catholics in Ukraine, he said, “the texts and gestures of the 13th station of this Way of the Cross are incoherent and even offensive, especially in the context of the expected second, even bloodier attack of Russian troops on our cities and villages.”

The meditation for the 13th station, which the Vatican said was written by a Ukrainian family and a Russian family, speaks of “death everywhere” and asks, “Where are you, Lord? Where are you hiding? We want our life back as before. Why all of this? What wrong did we do? Why have you forsaken us? Why have you forsaken our peoples?”

Before Archbishop Shevchuk issued his statement, Andrii Yurash, Ukraine’s ambassador to the Holy See, had tweeted that his embassy “understands and shares the general concern in Ukraine and many other communities” about the idea of bringing a Ukrainian and a Russian together to carry the cross at the service.

He said he would not have organized the Way of the Cross in this manner, noting: “Reconciliation must come when aggression is stopped, when Ukrainians will be able not only to save their lives but also their freedom. And, of course, we know that reconciliation occurs when the aggressor admits their guilt and apologizes.”

A Ukrainian and a Russian were invited to lead the Vatican’s Via Crucis. Ukraine wants Pope Francis to reconsider. | America Magazine
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I think that bishop needs to find another religion that supports his hatred and bigotry, because it ain't Christianity. Christianity is about forgiveness, reconciliation and bringing people together. So it's very Christian to have a Ukrainian and Russian carrying the cross together in these times. The bishop should repent for his enmity against his Russian brothers and sisters in Christ.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
"The one who says that he is in the light and yet hates his brother is still in the darkness. The one who loves his brother remains in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and is walking in the darkness, and he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes."-1 John 2:9-11.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don't like "guilt by association" beliefs, so the question I would have to ask the bishop is it just because the one woman is Russian or is it that maybe she's tried to justify Putin's war?
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I don't like "guilt by association" beliefs, so the question I would have to ask the bishop is it just because the one woman is Russian or is it that maybe she's tried to justify Putin's war?

Supposedly, the meditation was written by both a Russian family and a Ukranian family.

Nothing to do with this thread but, this coming Monday in Massachusetts we celebrate Patriot's Day on which is held the Boston marathon. There has been a ruling that no Russians will be allowed to run.
Surprised me at first but it is possible that the safety for their person was the consideration.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...Reconciliation must come when aggression is stopped, when Ukrainians will be able not only to save their lives but also their freedom. And, of course, we know that reconciliation occurs when the aggressor admits their guilt and apologizes.”...

It is very sad situation in Ukraine. But, I hope Ukrainians understand that what they require from others, is also required from them.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I get where the bishop’s coming from,can you pretend it’s all peace and love when it’s so not,the head of the Russian church fully supports the war so it’s understandable.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I get where the bishop’s coming from,can you pretend it’s all peace and love when it’s so not,the head of the Russian church fully supports the war so it’s understandable.
I kind of agree the intentions are indeed good on part of the bishop, but the reality in Ukraine is definitely not focused on Catholicism and attempts for symbolism as much as its focused directly having the invading forces removed from the country.

The display becomes pretty tacky albiet unintentional on part of the church.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I get where the bishop’s coming from,can you pretend it’s all peace and love when it’s so not,the head of the Russian church fully supports the war so it’s understandable.
Christians are supposed to be above such squabbles as we are subjects to the Kingdom of Heaven before we are citizens of any earthly country. St. Paul said in Christ we are neither Jew or Greek.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I kind of agree the intentions are indeed good on part of the bishop, but the reality in Ukraine is definitely not focused on Catholicism and attempts for symbolism as much as its focused directly having the invading forces removed from the country.

The display becomes pretty tacky albiet unintentional on part of the church.

It reminds me of this:

Pope Pius XI accused the Nazi government of sowing 'fundamental hostility to Christ and his Church'. The concordat has been described by some as giving moral legitimacy to the Nazi regime soon after Hitler had acquired quasi-dictatorial powers through the Enabling Act of 1933, an Act itself facilitated through the support of the Catholic Centre Party. Pius XII became Pope on the eve of war and lobbied world leaders to prevent the outbreak of conflict. His first encyclical, Summi Pontificatus, called the invasion of Poland an "hour of darkness". He affirmed the policy of Vatican neutrality, but maintained links to the German Resistance. Despite being the only world leader to publicly and specifically denounce Nazi crimes against Jews in his 1942 Christmas Address.

It wasn’t enough then either imo.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
There has been a ruling that no Russians will be allowed to run.
That's disgusting. This Russophobia has gotten out of hand. I think it's sick how we pretend to abhor racism and xenophobia, but once the war beast awakens, we instantly turn into fanatical bigots demonizing our "enemies". It's like look at what we did to the Japanese, who were even American citizens, during WWII. It's so gross.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Christians are supposed to be above such squabbles as we are subjects to the Kingdom of Heaven before we are citizens of any earthly country. St. Paul said in Christ we are neither Jew or Greek.

St Paul didn’t have to deal with rockets or war crimes or possibly reality,there’s no blood at all on Christian hands right?.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That's disgusting. This Russophobia has gotten out of hand. I think it's sick how we pretend to abhor racism and xenophobia, but once the war beast awakens, we instantly turn into fanatical bigots demonizing our "enemies". It's like look at what we did to the Japanese, who were even American citizens, during WWII. It's so gross.
Just another example that humans are easily programmed by those who know how to do it.

It always amazed me how just a few are able to control the many.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
St Paul didn’t have to deal with rockets or war crimes or possibly reality,there’s no blood at all on Christian hands right?.
Excuse me? War has always existed and the ancients used their own versions of bombs in war. There were many examples of atrocities in war from beginning. Like the Bible says, there's nothing new under the sun.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Excuse me? War has always existed and the ancients used their own versions of bombs in war. There were many examples of atrocities in war from beginning. Like the Bible says, there's nothing new under the sun.

True,war has always existed and the Holy See has made war and violence on most of the world in the past,one could say that it’s made life worse too in some parts,condoms for example could save many lives but a redemption could be to pointing to an obvious wrong imo.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think that bishop needs to find another religion that supports his hatred and bigotry, because it ain't Christianity. Christianity is about forgiveness, reconciliation and bringing people together. So it's very Christian to have a Ukrainian and Russian carrying the cross together in these times. The bishop should repent for his enmity against his Russian brothers and sisters in Christ.
Another view: Jesus cleansed the temple of the merchants and money changers. He didn’t forgive them and let them stay. Why shouldn’t Ukrainian be allowed to cleanse its country of the Russians?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Another view: Jesus cleansed the temple of the merchants and money changers. He didn’t forgive them and let them stay. Why shouldn’t Ukrainian be allowed to cleanse its country of the Russians?
Yeah, because Jesus actually killed everyone and was like Rambo. :facepalm:

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" was apparently misquoted and He actually said "blow your enemies away with your AK".

By the way, there's many Russians who live in the Ukraine (because, you know, the Ukraine was part of Russia for most of its existence). Should they be "cleansed" too?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
True,war has always existed and the Holy See has made war and violence on most of the world in the past,one could say that it’s made life worse too in some parts,condoms for example could save many lives but a redemption could be to pointing to an obvious wrong imo.
That's nice, but irrelevant to the topic or anything I said.
 
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