Ultimate Wisdom...

[rational experiences]

Wisdom does not exist. It is a human only belief.

I don't know myself.

Human sex brings my baby life into earths human living on a planet life.

I depend on adults as humans to live and survive. Natural wisdom.

My parents life body presence kept me safe.

They got food from nature to feed me. I was taught drink water. As adults they protected my life body as it grew.

Natural wisdom.

I live I die.

There is no other status to be a wise human....
Wait....
My life body is hurt. I am sick constantly. I am grateful look I am not as sick as others are.

I think in my mind how grateful I am for my suffering yet I lie. I don't want to suffer. I don't want my family suffering either

I must become informed why.

Is human wisdom....I learnt.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Is this like Ultimate Warrior, for smart people?

 

[rational experiences]

Father's advice.

He was not a theist scientist.

Baby adult man was

Was life attacked. First common sense human known man advice I am not God the planet body

Gets attacked then writes no man is God

The exact same natural origin man theists advice.

The bible a contradicting status of man. Owned caused by man.

Why father said he said the same advice first that he secondly concluded.

As he did not listen to father's spiritual man advice

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes, well what say you?

My "wisdom" whatever bit I possess, comes from a long history of bad choices and learning from them.
I don't see God as being particularly instrumental in me making bad choices.

To me it is like than and even one version of wise, is to know the limitations of even be wise.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm pretty sure I have no choice, what on earth does the phrase even pretend to mean? It's like claiming to be seeking ultimate truth, or ultimate happiness.

Deepity...an idea or statement that seems to be profound but actually isn't.

Well, it is about cetainity in a sense. E.g. a poster once claim that the methodology of science is set in stone. That is a variant of ultimate and goes against that you can't take from granted that you know with absolute certainty.
So a skeptic I can doubt everything and thus I can't doubt that I doubt, but from the fact that I doubt nothing else follows. So I personally started with this belief, which is without evidence: That objective reality is epistemologically fair, in that objective reality in itself in the ontological and metaphysical sense is not a case of a Boltzmann Brain, the Matrix or the evil demon of Rene Descartes.

So I am not certain what objective reality is in the ultimate sense, but rather I trust it to be fair and thus I take from granted that you and I are in the everyday world, but I don't know that as an ultimate truth.

 

[Clara Tea]

​

[Ultimate Wisdom] comes only from the authority of God via God's messengers?

Or is man capable of being the source of ultimate wisdom?

An atheist would say man is our only source of wisdom. If there is no God then whatever wisdom you hold highest came from the mind of another person such as yourself.

There are wise sayings, we accept their wisdom. There are also religious sayings that claim the wisdom of man is foolishness.

Is it possible for humanity without God to be wise?

Merriam-Webster's two definitions of humanity:

1. being human or joined together by common humanity

2. being kind

Nakosis: "Is it possible for humanity without God to be wise?" According to atheists, who don't believe in God, yes. According to theists (like modern Christians, supporters of war, torture camps, the National Rifle Association (and the hate list of the NRA that includes the pope)), you need to be a theist to be kind. I think that it is best summed up by a Christian organization who seems to follow the motto "Kind Kompassionate Khristians" (or at least they named their organization the KKK, wear white hoods to hide their identities, and carry crosses).

I don't think that murderers, covert members of lynch mobs, and torturers are kind. I don't think that the highly religious Mafia is kind. I don't think that it was kind of Reverend Jim and Tammy Fay Bakker to steal donation funds out of the mouths of starving Africans so they could air condition the dog house of their mansion (in their lawyer's name to evade prying eyes).

In short....the kind theist is almost a myth (there are some, but they are few and far between).

Also, the unkind atheist is also a myth.

Picking on atheists is wrong, and elevating yourself higher than atheists (on moral issues) is a lie. But, it is a lie for Jesus, so maybe that is permissible (but I doubt it).

 

[Clara Tea]

Well, it is about cetainty in a sense. E.g. a poster once claim that the methodology of science is set in stone. That is a variant of ultimate and goes against that you can't take from granted that you know with absolute certainty.
So a skeptic I can doubt everything and thus I can't doubt that I doubt, but from the fact that I doubt nothing else follows. So I personally started with this belief, which is without evidence: That objective reality is epistemologically fair, in that objective reality in itself in the ontological and metaphysical sense is not a case of a Boltzmann Brain, the Matrix or the evil demon of Rene Descartes.

So I am not certain what objective reality is in the ultimate sense, but rather I trust it to be fair and thus I take from granted that you and I are in the everyday world, but I don't know that as an ultimate truth.

Quantum mechanics deals with statistics. All things are possible until we determine (by measurement) how things really are. Then, the process of measuring (beaming particles or light at it) moves it, so that it no longer is as we measured it. It's like opening a box containing a poisoned cat to determine if it is dead or not. Until the box is opened, only statistics are available to estimate life. (Schroedinger's Cat).

Thus, in quantum mechanics, we are always uncertain. Furthermore, the more certain we are about position, the less certain we are about momentum (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).

From all of this, we "might" be able to deduce the odds that God exists, or the odds that God exists in a certain volume. When we somehow look for God, we will have to modify our ideas once we see God. As you see, belief (in God or science) is not set in stone.

Unlike the detection of subatomic particles, the detection of God is harder. If God would answer prayers, or help mankind, or relieve the suffering of mankind, that action "might" or "might not" be detectable, and might give a clue to the existence or location of God.

Many miracles of God (or related figures, such as Madonna) exist. But, many of them might be hoaxes. Many villages have statues of a Madonna that cries blood, etc.

But, if God is in hiding, which, of course, might explain why he is so difficult to see, would God mind if we peeked to see if he exists and where he exists? Maybe with a blink of His eye, we could find ourselves on the top of Mt. Everest, shivering? God is powerful, and it is not good to mess around with such power.

 

[Clara Tea]

Looking at the lives of Ramana Maharsha, Ramakrishna Paramhamsa, St. Francis of Assisi, Rumi, Hafiz and others I know of no way based on what they say, how they dress or by any ordinary means I know of. What makes it even harder is there are hordes of frauds making a living at pretending to be such a person or even some who think they are but aren't.

If one is sensitive to the love they radiate, then recognition can occur. On the other hand, if they have ordinary charisma, if their actions are not in accord with their words especially when they act out of greed, lust etc, then they aren't.

On RF? Who knows. In this era, there's no reason that such a person would avoid technology.

Jeb Bush said that no hurricane will strike Florida while he is governor. Who knows if he is a fraud? A hurricane hit Florida. Now we know.

Knowing who is, and who is not a false prophet (like Jeb Bush) is sometimes just a matter of time and paying attention.

 

[Clara Tea]

you said,

understanding mechanically problems
wisdom through philosophy
spiritual teachings and personal experiences
only God

Four different answers to one question. To me this seems conflicted.

I suppose it wouldn't be called truth if was black and white. In truth, there are always statistical differences.

It's like going to a casino and rolling a die (one of a pair of dice) and getting 6 every time. It wouldn't be random without variation.

 

[Clara Tea]

I'm pretty sure I have no choice, what on earth does the phrase even pretend to mean? It's like claiming to be seeking ultimate truth, or ultimate happiness.

Deepity...an idea or statement that seems to be profound but actually isn't.

Good point, I'll be ultimately happy if I can find ultimate truth.

 

[Clara Tea]

To me it is like than and even one version of wise, is to know the limitations of even be wise.

Socrates (the father of Philosophy) would agree with you. He once got in an argument with the mayor of Athens who called him an idiot. Socrates instantly agreed with the mayor (indeed, I am an idiot). But, Socrates argued, I know that I am an idiot, and you do not know that you are an idiot, and therefore, I know more than you do.

Even a wise man knows his limitations, and that makes him still wiser.

 

[Clara Tea]

I don't even think humanity can know anything without God (let alone be wise), but of course I'd say that.

But can humanity know something with God.

We have God. My dog has us. Can our dog know something about driving a car? Can we say "Rover, go down to the store in the car, and get a half gallon of milk?"

Can a dog know something with us? Can we teach a dog everything that we know?

If God is all knowing, can that all knowing entity possibly teach us everything? Is our brain big enough to encompass it?

We are to a dog what God is to us.

 

[Clara Tea]

Wisdom does not exist. It is a human only belief.

I don't know myself.

Human sex brings my baby life into earths human living on a planet life.

I depend on adults as humans to live and survive. Natural wisdom.

My parents life body presence kept me safe.

They got food from nature to feed me. I was taught drink water. As adults they protected my life body as it grew.

Natural wisdom.

I live I die.

There is no other status to be a wise human....
Wait....
My life body is hurt. I am sick constantly. I am grateful look I am not as sick as others are.

I think in my mind how grateful I am for my suffering yet I lie. I don't want to suffer. I don't want my family suffering either

I must become informed why.

Is human wisdom....I learnt.

The wisdom to survive doesn't tell us what will happen in the future.

God told St. John the Divine the future and instructed him to write Revelation. Revelation told us not to attack Iraq or face God's wrath.

It would have been impossible to know that we were not supposed to go to war with Iraq without God.

Therefore, there are some things that we can learn to survive, and there are other things that we can learn from God about what to do in the future.

God said "thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek" but he didn't say why. He knew why, because God knows the future, but often doesn't explain in detail to humans. We have to take God at his word and believe him without question.

 

[Lain]

But can humanity know something with God.

Indeed, all knowledge is relational, and conscience (co-knowing) is that very thing, which some ignore to their detriment.

 

[Colt]

​

Comes only from the authority of God via God's messengers?

Or is man capable of being the source of ultimate wisdom?
An atheist would say man is our only source of wisdom. If there is no God then whatever wisdom you hold highest came from the mind of another person such as yourself.

There are wise sayings, we accept their wisdom. There are also religious sayings that claim the wisdom of man is foolishness.

Is it possible for humanity without God to be wise?

Wisdom is one of the 7 spirits of God. We can be the oracles of wisdom yet not credit the source.

An Atheist or humanist can be moral and claim to be the source of his or her moral consciousness.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Wisdom is one of the 7 spirits of God. We can be the oracles of wisdom yet not credit the source.

An Atheist or humanist can be moral and claim to be the source of his or her moral consciousness.

I believe differently.

 

[Clara Tea]

Indeed, all knowledge is relational, and conscience (co-knowing) is that very thing, which some ignore to their detriment.

Your vocabulary is incredible, and your education in religion is remarkable. This makes it difficult for me to research your short but profound posts and understand them.

I will begin by defining terms.

co-knowing | English to Persian (Farsi) | Other

Co-knowing: Not realistic, because it is a product of "human consent, co-feeling,co-knowing and conspiring (source: website above).

Definition of RELATIONAL

Relational: How people are connected. (source: website above)

If all knowledge was conscience then there would be no knowledge gained by the unconscious mind. Stand still and listen, and you will hear sounds of distant trains, cars on freeways, birds chirping in distant trees, and dogs barking blocks away. But, if you don't listen for these things, you won't think that you hear them. This is because your conscious mind blocks them. You still hear everything, and some things register strongly in your subconscious, and you might feel dread, or danger, and not know why. The unconscious mind blocks many sensory things, so that the conscious mind could continue to operate unfettered by background noise.

While some knowledge is relational, some is instinctual. Dogs (and other animals) make a variety of noises, depending on what they are responding to. Sometimes they growl, bark, whine, and all of that appears to be instinctual, since small pups, taken from their moms, make the same instinctual noises for the same stimuli. Humans have instincts too, and make similar noises (babies cry if you toss them out a window....interesting experiment, but not recommended).

id | psychology

Id (Latin for "it," named by Freud is oblivious to the external world and unaware of the passage of time. (source Encyclopedia Britannica).

 

[rational experiences]

The wisdom to survive doesn't tell us what will happen in the future.

God told St. John the Divine the future and instructed him to write Revelation. Revelation told us not to attack Iraq or face God's wrath.

It would have been impossible to know that we were not supposed to go to war with Iraq without God.

Therefore, there are some things that we can learn to survive, and there are other things that we can learn from God about what to do in the future.

God said "thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek" but he didn't say why. He knew why, because God knows the future, but often doesn't explain in detail to humans. We have to take God at his word and believe him without question.

Because half of natural life water made a separated heavenly god father record where he endured the knowledge himself.

God our heavenly father is real. It is not science hence science cannot determine its reasons. It is experienced only by human family in any country

Hence science is wrong as religious belief divided national purpose of country. God the father was the only national natural experience that told humans we are family first.