Unconsciously inventing problems for ourselves?

[excreationist]

My favourite advice about life is Mark Manson's "Life Is a Video Game - Here Are the Cheat Codes" (which is just a single webpage)

Life Is a Video Game—Here Are the Cheat Codes

Welcome, Player One, to a strategy guide for the game known as Life.

markmanson.net

He says things like:

......the game of Life is often quite difficult. You will face unexpected challenges and long periods of frustration. You will often struggle with self-doubt, feel overwhelmed by helplessness and loss....

Life is designed to continually throw difficult and unexpected problems at you. Life is a never-ending stream of problems that must be confronted, surmounted, and/or solved. If at any point, Life runs out of problems to give us, then as players, we will unconsciously invent problems for ourselves. Problems are what keep us occupied and give our lives meaning

That's happened to me multiple times when I've been in a manic episode and I'd end up creating problems for myself while feeling "high".

I wonder if there is any kind of religion or spirituality that is compatible with that (unconsciously inventing problems for ourselves)...

The odd thing is that it seems like a law of the universe... (in my experience). Earlier my theory was that we need to have something we care about being threatened and if that stops we end up creating situations in which our happiness is threatened...

The concept of eternal Heaven is in conflict with this topic though the idea of Heaven doesn't really reflect reality.

A key reason behind my first manic episode was due to a book about being happy 100% of the time...

Happiness - Life's Player

Happiness, simulations, manic episodes, and more...

lifesplayer.com

From "How to make your life work or why aren't you happy?" by Ken Keyes Jr.

Ken Keyes' later books stopped talking about being happy 100% of the time... so I guess his constant happiness ended...

 

[Quintessence]

I don't doubt that some humans do this, if they accept the foundational narratives required for the emergence of this narrative. The notion that "life is designed to throw problems at you" strikes me as bizarrely anthropocentric and out of touch with realities. Life is. It might be argued that humans are "designed" to mistakenly believe life and the universe revolves around them, and therefore everything the universe does is somehow personal.

 

[Quagmire]

The article in the OP is just an expanded version of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But I think the author does a decent job of illustrating the concept.

I agree that human beings have a need to be constantly challenged, and that if life doesn't present us with obstacles we'll wind up creating our own.

Overcoming obstacles is how we learn and grow, and like Dylan said: ''He not busy being born is busy dying".

 

[excreationist]

I don't doubt that some humans do this, if they accept the foundational narratives required for the emergence of this narrative. The notion that "life is designed to throw problems at you" strikes me as bizarrely anthropocentric and out of touch with realities. Life is. It might be argued that humans are "designed" to mistakenly believe life and the universe revolves around them, and therefore everything the universe does is somehow personal.

As far as being "bizarrely anthropocentric" goes, that's why I put it in "theological concepts". Do you disagree with:

Life is often quite difficult. You will face unexpected challenges and long periods of frustration. You will often struggle with self-doubt, feel overwhelmed by helplessness and loss

It is very true for me. Is it not true for you? (I'm talking about you rather than hypothetical people) Well that part wasn't true for me during my manic episodes.

 

[excreationist]

The article in the OP is just an expanded version of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

View attachment 99612

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But I think the author does a decent job of illustrating the concept.

Yeah it corresponds well. It has a lot of other concepts I like like solutions, distractions and habits...

I agree that human beings have a need to be constantly challenged, and that if life doesn't present us with obstacles we'll wind up creating our own.

Overcoming obstacles is how we learn and grow, and like Dylan said: ''He not busy being born is busy dying".

I'm not sure if us always creating problems is part of psychology literature (like Maslow).

 

[Eddi]

The article in the OP is just an expanded version of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

View attachment 99612

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

But I think the author does a decent job of illustrating the concept.

I agree that human beings have a need to be constantly challenged, and that if life doesn't present us with obstacles we'll wind up creating our own.

Overcoming obstacles is how we learn and grow, and like Dylan said: ''He not busy being born is busy dying".

For a while I was obsessed with Maslow's hierarchy of needs

I planned my whole life around it

And I allocated the computational resources of my brain accordingly

It was quite mad it really was

 

[excreationist]

For a while I was obsessed with Maslow's hierarchy of needs

I planned my whole life around it

And I allocated the computational resources of my brain accordingly

It was quite mad it really was

I like how the web page is a lot richer than Maslow. Things like solutions vs distractions can be a struggle that raise their head multiple times per day - unless you just give up and try to indulge in distractions.

 

[Quintessence]

As far as being "bizarrely anthropocentric" goes, that's why I put it in "theological concepts". Do you disagree with:

Life is often quite difficult. You will face unexpected challenges and long periods of frustration. You will often struggle with self-doubt, feel overwhelmed by helplessness and loss

Hmm, I guess I make a distinction between telling the story that there's some sort of teleological purposiveness (aka, existence is somehow designed to be problematic for humans, specifically) and what is said here. Obviously, life can be difficult... which to me is more consistent with a universe that it isn't designed around humans, much less designed to problematic for humans. I suppose one could interpret it differently, but I do not have a pessimistic or negative outlook. My life experiences don't justify that, and neither does my sanity. If I "often" struggled with self-doubt and felt overwhelmed by loss, that's clinical depression and not normal mental health. I've been there so I get that head space, but it is definitely not my modus operandi so to speak.

 

[Twilight Hue]

My favourite advice about life is Mark Manson's "Life Is a Video Game - Here Are the Cheat Codes" (which is just a single webpage)

Life Is a Video Game—Here Are the Cheat Codes

Welcome, Player One, to a strategy guide for the game known as Life.

markmanson.net

He says things like:

That's happened to me multiple times when I've been in a manic episode and I'd end up creating problems for myself while feeling "high".

I wonder if there is any kind of religion or spirituality that is compatible with that (unconsciously inventing problems for ourselves)...

The odd thing is that it seems like a law of the universe... (in my experience). Earlier my theory was that we need to have something we care about being threatened and if that stops we end up creating situations in which our happiness is threatened...

The concept of eternal Heaven is in conflict with this topic though the idea of Heaven doesn't really reflect reality.

A key reason behind my first manic episode was due to a book about being happy 100% of the time...

Happiness - Life's Player

Happiness, simulations, manic episodes, and more...

lifesplayer.com

From "How to make your life work or why aren't you happy?" by Ken Keyes Jr.
View attachment 99608
Ken Keyes' later books stopped talking about being happy 100% of the time... so I guess his constant happiness ended...

I find that half the things that make me upset and go crazy haven't even happened. They are pretty much what if scenarios , which in my case was responsible for most of my stress and anxiety because I kept playing those scenarios over and over in my head because of the possibility of it happening to me. Essentially pretending those scenarios did happen and not acknowledging the reality that it didn't happen.

 

[Brickjectivity]

He is expanding on something called Maslow's Hierarchy, which is a theory of how humans (but I think he is focused upon male humans) feel truly fulfilled in our lives. I think that generally the idea applies to both sexes. Women probably feel some fulfillment (near the top of the pyramid) from having children that men do not, although men do get some fulfillment that way. They are crazy about babies sometimes.

Lets throw (legal) drugs into it. You can feel fulfilled when you are drugged up, which is perhaps where the category of religion might come in. For example Crossfire has said that she once attained a tempting jana of focused meditation (which religion I am unsure) which gave consistent pleasure. It sounds to me like she shot straight to the top or near to the top of the pyramid just by meditating, although she did eventually opt to step out of that mental state. @crossfire

I met a man who told me he had felt high for six months after converting to Jesus. Did I believe him? I wasn't sure whether to take him seriously, but after meeting Crossfire I become more open to the thought.

Another member @Orbit talked about the affects of (legal) experiments with DMT, that people could be changed after.

I have also heard through youtube about a legal procedure called 'Ketamine therapy' which enables patients with long term psychological problems to experience a personal change through a few minutes of complete bliss and self acceptance. Sounds to me like that might shoot Maslow's hierarchy all to pieces.

 

[Brickjectivity]

...but I note that many of the things you are saying or that are on that page related to things like Stoic philosophy. Its the philosophy of satisfaction -- of being satisfied and becoming civilized through acceptance.

 

[excreationist]

He is expanding on something called Maslow's Hierarchy

I intended this thread to be about what I quoted and especially the part about inventing problems - not about the rest of his web page. I shouldn't have given the link to his web page.

 

[excreationist]

...but I note that many of the things you are saying or that are on that page related to things like Stoic philosophy. Its the philosophy of satisfaction -- of being satisfied and becoming civilized through acceptance.

What about the topic of inventing problems for yourself? i.e. what happens after completely being satisfied - does it say that you'd always cause your own problems?

 

[excreationist]

Hmm, I guess I make a distinction between telling the story that there's some sort of teleological purposiveness (aka, existence is somehow designed to be problematic for humans, specifically) and what is said here.

Like I said this is the "Theological Concepts" forum. In the OP I asked about whether any kind of religion or spirituality that is compatible with that (unconsciously inventing problems for ourselves). Rather than just what secular psychology says about it.

Obviously, life can be difficult...

BTW "The Road Less Travelled" by M. Scott Peck says:

Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths

i.e. life IS difficult for everyone. (or often "quite difficult" according to the OP quote)

which to me is more consistent with a universe that it isn't designed around humans, much less designed to problematic for humans. I suppose one could interpret it differently, but I do not have a pessimistic or negative outlook. My life experiences don't justify that, and neither does my sanity. If I "often" struggled with self-doubt and felt overwhelmed by loss, that's clinical depression and not normal mental health. I've been there so I get that head space, but it is definitely not my modus operandi so to speak.

Well the focus of my topic was about whether you invent problems for yourself if you run out of problems - and how this relates to religion and spirituality.
As far as being pessimistic and negative goes, the "Life is difficult" quote from M. Scott Peck goes on to say:

It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult—once we truly understand and accept it—then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.

 

[crossfire]

My favourite advice about life is Mark Manson's "Life Is a Video Game - Here Are the Cheat Codes" (which is just a single webpage)

Life Is a Video Game—Here Are the Cheat Codes

Welcome, Player One, to a strategy guide for the game known as Life.

markmanson.net

He says things like:

That's happened to me multiple times when I've been in a manic episode and I'd end up creating problems for myself while feeling "high".

I wonder if there is any kind of religion or spirituality that is compatible with that (unconsciously inventing problems for ourselves)...

The odd thing is that it seems like a law of the universe... (in my experience). Earlier my theory was that we need to have something we care about being threatened and if that stops we end up creating situations in which our happiness is threatened...

The concept of eternal Heaven is in conflict with this topic though the idea of Heaven doesn't really reflect reality.

A key reason behind my first manic episode was due to a book about being happy 100% of the time...

Happiness - Life's Player

Happiness, simulations, manic episodes, and more...

lifesplayer.com

From "How to make your life work or why aren't you happy?" by Ken Keyes Jr.
View attachment 99608
Ken Keyes' later books stopped talking about being happy 100% of the time... so I guess his constant happiness ended...

First Noble Truth: Life is Dukkha.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Hmm, I guess I make a distinction between telling the story that there's some sort of teleological purposiveness (aka, existence is somehow designed to be problematic for humans, specifically) and what is said here. Obviously, life can be difficult... which to me is more consistent with a universe that it isn't designed around humans, much less designed to problematic for humans. I suppose one could interpret it differently, but I do not have a pessimistic or negative outlook. My life experiences don't justify that, and neither does my sanity. If I "often" struggled with self-doubt and felt overwhelmed by loss, that's clinical depression and not normal mental health. I've been there so I get that head space, but it is definitely not my modus operandi so to speak.

You should limit your responses to the awfulness of religion and how it must be destroyed. Clearly it is the thing which is being referred to in the OP. 'Problems we create for ourselves' hint hint.

 

[excreationist]

You should limit your responses to the awfulness of religion and how it must be destroyed. Clearly it is the thing which is being referred to in the OP. 'Problems we create for ourselves' hint hint.

I was after any kind of relevance to religion and spirituality (rather than secular psychology). It is about why people can't just be content forever. (Though religions often say that you could be after you die and go to Heaven).

 

[crossfire]

He is expanding on something called Maslow's Hierarchy, which is a theory of how humans (but I think he is focused upon male humans) feel truly fulfilled in our lives. I think that generally the idea applies to both sexes. Women probably feel some fulfillment (near the top of the pyramid) from having children that men do not, although men do get some fulfillment that way. They are crazy about babies sometimes.

Lets throw (legal) drugs into it. You can feel fulfilled when you are drugged up, which is perhaps where the category of religion might come in. For example Crossfire has said that she once attained a tempting jana of focused meditation (which religion I am unsure) which gave consistent pleasure. It sounds to me like she shot straight to the top or near to the top of the pyramid just by meditating, although she did eventually opt to step out of that mental state. @crossfire

I wasn't attempting a jhana. I didn't even know what a jhana was at the time. But yeah, it's better than any drug and I did exhibit some junkie-like behavior afterwards. I wouldn't say that the Jhana state is the highest state. Being completely present is the greatest state imo.

I met a man who told me he had felt high for six months after converting to Jesus. Did I believe him? I wasn't sure whether to take him seriously, but after meeting Crossfire I become more open to the thought.

Yeah, I'm sure there is such a thing as spiritual junkies--addicted to the bliss.

Another member @Orbit talked about the affects of (legal) experiments with DMT, that people could be changed after.

I have also heard through youtube about a legal procedure called 'Ketamine therapy' which enables patients with long term psychological problems to experience a personal change through a few minutes of complete bliss and self acceptance. Sounds to me like that might shoot Maslow's hierarchy all to pieces.

Such experiences can cause a profound change to an individual, as they get an up-close and personal view into their own psyche.

 

[excreationist]

I met a man who told me he had felt high for six months after converting to Jesus
....
I have also heard through youtube about a legal procedure called 'Ketamine therapy' which enables patients with long term psychological problems to experience a personal change through a few minutes of complete bliss and self acceptance. Sounds to me like that might shoot Maslow's hierarchy all to pieces.

Well Mark Manson mainly talks about solutions vs distractions. Distractions can make people very comforted in the short to medium term including that guy who felt high for six months after converting to Jesus... I mean the idea of Heaven isn't really solving real world problems (which are the 5 levels/needs) so then it is a distraction (I think).

 

[crossfire]

Well Mark Manson mainly talks about solutions vs distractions. Distractions can make people very comforted in the short to medium term including that guy who felt high for six months after converting to Jesus... I mean the idea of Heaven isn't really solving real world problems (which are the 5 levels/needs) so then it is a distraction (I think).

What percentage of real world problems are connected human psychological hang-ups? Becoming a better person can lead to solving real world problems, so can religion that triggers a lasting personal transformation properly be called a distraction?