Understanding Hell

[Just_me_Mike]

For many years I have had a problem with following a God that would allow people he created to suffer an eternity in a place called hell. However, in recent times I understood the greater truth to this place called hell.
When we study the bible and look at the original words used, we find that hell is actually used many places in the bible as grave. When we think of people who will not go to heaven, any person honest with themselves will feel some contempt for the idea that these souls will be suffering for eternity. The fact is, they will not be suffering at all. The bible speaks in parables, and as a parable we must understand these ideas.
So if this is new to any of you and you would like better clarification, I can and will redirect you to the bible and how this truth has been revealed. Those who do not go to heaven will in fact just stop existing, and the eternal damnation spoken of in the bible is just a reference to the fact that these souls will never ever again for eternity have a chance to live their life.
After I understood this many of the passages of the bible began to make sense. This also relieves the idea that God is a being that would allow eternal torture.

Look forward to discussing with you...

 

[ChristineES]

I have always believed that when they speak of hell, they are talking of the grave and not some place of everlasting torment. Any time Jesus spoke of fire, it was in a parable, which denotes that it is a symbol.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Yes in fact fire in many instances is just used as a picture of the fact that judgement will take place.

 

[invisible chzbrgr]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, I have read a bit about hell / Gehenna / Sheol (not extensively though). Like many other concepts in the bible, it seems that one must search a little to find just the right thing to fit the reader's morality. Ie, you are a kind person and don't like eternal punishment for anyone, so you have to find a way around it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad thing in general, since contemporary humans seem to be more moral than the characters in the bible. It's only that since there are so many interpretations, can anyone be sure of theirs?

I am glad you found a way to get past hell; but I know of some people who would argue vigorously with you on your interpretation.

 

[science_is_my_god]

For many years I have had a problem with following a God that would allow people he created to suffer an eternity in a place called hell. However, in recent times I understood the greater truth to this place called hell.
When we study the bible and look at the original words used, we find that hell is actually used many places in the bible as grave. When we think of people who will not go to heaven, any person honest with themselves will feel some contempt for the idea that these souls will be suffering for eternity. The fact is, they will not be suffering at all. The bible speaks in parables, and as a parable we must understand these ideas.
So if this is new to any of you and you would like better clarification, I can and will redirect you to the bible and how this truth has been revealed. Those who do not go to heaven will in fact just stop existing, and the eternal damnation spoken of in the bible is just a reference to the fact that these souls will never ever again for eternity have a chance to live their life.
After I understood this many of the passages of the bible began to make sense. This also relieves the idea that God is a being that would allow eternal torture.

Look forward to discussing with you...

Hmph. I thought the Christian concept of souls couldn't get any more arrogant. Boy was I wrong...

EDIT: I forgot to ask my question. My question for you is why, if a god exists, it is so hard for you to grasp the notion that god could be a sadist? What makes you so sure that god doesn't like to just sit back and watch us suffer? I think we all at some point or another like to toy with a magnifying glass and watch the ants burn. Of course, I think I probably know the answer: "He died for our sins, because the bible tells us so." Because I HIGHLY doubt you could answer this question without consulting your 2,000 year old cave man book that's been rewritten a billion times.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

INVISIBLE CHZBRGR
Thank you for the welcome, and the reply.
I would like to express that I in fact believe there will be a day of judgement in which it will be awful for those that are there. However it will not last for eternity.
You are correct many would argue with my views on hell.
Please undertand I believe in God, and did believe even when I did not understand hell, but as the bible declares for us to prove all things even the word of God, it just never made sense what the churches have been teaching for over 1900 years.
On the surface and to any who don't believe in the bible it seems I found a "work around", when in fact I believe I found truth. I am not one who thinks that God has to be "teddy bear", but certain things didn't add up when listening to what churches teach.
The problem with churches is that they form institutions, and make by-laws and so forth. By doing this the church is holding itself as absolute authority and can't change if something new is learned. Well of course we know people leave churches and start a new denomination, but they end up right where they were before, locked into a system of thinking.
So I haven't been searching for a way around hell, I just study the word of God, and it reveals itself as it sees fit.
That's my view anyway, but thanks again for the reply.

 

[idea]

For many years I have had a problem with following a God that would allow people he created to suffer an eternity in a place called hell. However, in recent times I understood the greater truth to this place called hell.
When we study the bible and look at the original words used, we find that hell is actually used many places in the bible as grave. When we think of people who will not go to heaven, any person honest with themselves will feel some contempt for the idea that these souls will be suffering for eternity. The fact is, they will not be suffering at all. The bible speaks in parables, and as a parable we must understand these ideas.
So if this is new to any of you and you would like better clarification, I can and will redirect you to the bible and how this truth has been revealed. Those who do not go to heaven will in fact just stop existing, and the eternal damnation spoken of in the bible is just a reference to the fact that these souls will never ever again for eternity have a chance to live their life.
After I understood this many of the passages of the bible began to make sense. This also relieves the idea that God is a being that would allow eternal torture.

Look forward to discussing with you...

welcome, yes hell/ the existence of evil is the big question. Afterall, if God created everything, (everything including evil) you would have to think that god created evil, and that makes Him a hypocrite...

You will get the free will answer - that does not quite cover it though. To have an independent will, part of us has to be independent... and if everything stems back to God, nothing is independent of Him.

The answer that I have found is that God did not create all of it, "create" is better translated "form" tranform, shape, etc... God is cleaning up a mess that He did not make.... We are eternal, no beginning and no end, (otherwise we could not have "eternal life" - we are eternal, we get the life part from Him.)

IF it was formed, God is the one who organized/ beautified it. All that is good comes from God. Material that refuses to be formed exists though. Not God's fault.

 

[idea]

I have always believed that when they speak of hell, they are talking of the grave and not some place of everlasting torment. Any time Jesus spoke of fire, it was in a parable, which denotes that it is a symbol.

This is correct.

35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
(Old Testament | Jeremiah 32:35)

causing anyone to be burned in fire is an abomination to God. The thought "never came into His mind".

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Science_is_my_god
I will answer your question. God say's in his wonderful words, that he takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked. However it also says he has reserved some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting destruction. So to say he enjoys the pain would be contrary to his words.

This is particularly talked about when Jesus gives the parable of the tares and the wheat. There we learn that the tares have been planted in with the wheat, and the man of the field asks his master should he take out the tares? The master replies, no but wait until the harvest and we will seperate the good from the bad, and the bad throw into the fire.
So it is clear that God will punish, but does that make him sadistic? Maybe, according to our understanding, but I do belive it is his good pleasure to do as he will.

 

[science_is_my_god]

Science_is_my_god
I will answer your question. God say's in his wonderful words, that he takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

Assuming he exists, I think his actions show otherwise.

However it also says he has reserved some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting destruction. So to say he enjoys the pain would be contrary to his words.

"It" also says... "his words"... your referring to the bible aren't you? See, I told you. You can't come up with your own explainations outside of the bible. How do you know the bible is accurate?

This is particularly talked about when Jesus gives the parable of the tares and the wheat. There we learn that the tares have been planted in with the wheat, and the man of the field asks his master should he take out the tares? The master replies, no but wait until the harvest and we will seperate the good from the bad, and the bad throw into the fire.

Again, you always have to refer to your bible, and yet you can't even think for yourself... how sad...

So it is clear that God will punish, but does that make him sadistic?

Logically, it does. Here's why:

1. God, with his omniscience knows that I will be an atheist.
2. Yet he still creates me.
3. He makes it a sin to not beieve in his existence.
4. I am destined to be punished.
5. I am punished because I was created.

Sounds sadistic to me...

 

[ChristineES]

About the tares and wheat: I sometimes wonder if we could not interpret this parable in a different way. The wheat is good and the tares is evil. The wheat is kept and the tares burned. Couldn't it also be interpreted that these are traits that Jesus is talking about and not people. I am not saying this is correct, but just an idea.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Science_is_my_god
I understand perfectly where you are coming from. I have long drawn out discussions with my borther who is an atheist. So your view is not new to me, though I would like to learn more about what you believe that makes you who you are.
As far as insulting me, that doesn't give you much ground to be taken seriously. You don't know me and we are just discussing views here. How can we have a discussion if the only words that come out of your mouth are offensive?
However, your point about the validity of the bible is a great place to start. This is something that I needed to research for myself over many years, and is a topic worthy of discussion. Again, though if you can not have a reasonable discussion, I don't see the point in elaborating.

Your move.

If you want me to present a side I am condifent you have never heard before I will do that for you. If you have no interest, let this be the end of the discussion between you and I.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Christine, it is true parables sometimes have more than one meaning. In the instance of the Wheat and the Tears, it is a accurate picture of judgement day. Throughout the church age there has been true believers (the wheat) and also tares (those whom Satan interjects). The idea is that God allows this to take place until harvest (or judgement). The New Testament is full of references to this. So there may be other reason for this parable, this seems to be the main point, to illustrate how God's judgement process will take place.
Interestingly though, the tares look so much like the wheat, much like churches today look like the true gospel or church. God tells in this parable that, by chance he take up the wheat while taking out the tares, he will just wait until the harvest. So this also illustrates how the church of God is full of tares, that are not bringing the true gospel, but seem to be bringing the true gospel. This is truly where the parable shines is in the church.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Science_is_my_god
I understand perfectly where you are coming from. I have long drawn out discussions with my borther who is an atheist. So your view is not new to me, though I would like to learn more about what you believe that makes you who you are.
As far as insulting me, that doesn't give you much ground to be taken seriously. You don't know me and we are just discussing views here. How can we have a discussion if the only words that come out of your mouth are offensive?
However, your point about the validity of the bible is a great place to start. This is something that I needed to research for myself over many years, and is a topic worthy of discussion. Again, though if you can not have a reasonable discussion, I don't see the point in elaborating.

Your move.

If you want me to present a side I am condifent you have never heard before I will do that for you. If you have no interest, let this be the end of the discussion between you and I.

I am not the person whom you are addressing, but I'd like to say that I am very interested in your side of Biblical justification. May I suggest a new thread?

 

[Beaudreaux]

About the tares and wheat: I sometimes wonder if we could not interpret this parable in a different way. The wheat is good and the tares is evil. The wheat is kept and the tares burned. Couldn't it also be interpreted that these are traits that Jesus is talking about and not people. I am not saying this is correct, but just an idea.

Nonsense! Biblical metaphors are always quite clear, as these prophets demonstrate.

 

[Enoch07]

Again, you always have to refer to your bible, and yet you can't even think for yourself... how sad...
Logically, it does. Here's why:

1. God, with his omniscience knows that I will be an atheist.
2. Yet he still creates me.
3. He makes it a sin to not beieve in his existence.
4. I am destined to be punished.
5. I am punished because I was created.

Sounds sadistic to me...

Several things you fail to understand here sir.

1. We believe the Bible to be accurate. Its part of this thing called Faith.
2. God knows that more than likely you will be an atheist but because of "free will" you still have to be given the chance to make up your mind.
3. Of course its a sin to not believe in God. If you had/have children would you not be mad if they walked out on you and denied you after all you have done for them.
4. You are not destined to be punished or rewarded. You have the choice to choose your fate.
5. I do think for myself. It is up to every person in this world to find their own path. Hopefully most people will find their way to Christ.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I have always believed that when they speak of hell, they are talking of the grave and not some place of everlasting torment. Any time Jesus spoke of fire, it was in a parable, which denotes that it is a symbol.

This is correct.

35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
(Old Testament | Jeremiah32:35)

causing anyone to be burned in fire is an abomination to God. The thought "never came into His mind".

Revelations
16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Ah, so the writer of Revelations was mistaken. What a relief.:woohoo:

 

[Beaudreaux]

2. God knows that more than likely you will be an atheist but because of "free will" you still have to be given the chance to make up your mind.

God, the omnipotent, all-knowing creator of the universe, knows "most likely"?!?!? He's guessing????

This is an interesting view, but I must say that you diverge from mainstream Christianity with this opinion. An all-knowing God does not know "most likely" that I would be an atheist. He knew 100% for certain before the universe was created that I would be an atheist.

 

[Enoch07]

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

How does God appear to Moses on Mount Sinai?

Exodus 24:17 The sight of the glory of the Lord was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain in the eyes of the children of Israel.

God is a consuming fire. If you love God the fire will not burn you. If you go against God you will get burned. The lake of fire referred to as hell is you actually being consumed by God. Your soul simply cease to exist. Your memory is blotted out from everyone whoever knew you. The hell of demons and whips etc is fiction. God loves everyone (including atheist) so much that even if you mess up beyond repair, he simply erases you from existence to end your misery. He would never torment you as Dante imagined. That is simply a failed terroristic doctrine that distorts God true word.

 

[Enoch07]

God, the omnipotent, all-knowing creator of the universe, knows "most likely"?!?!? He's guessing????

This is an interesting view, but I must say that you diverge from mainstream Christianity with this opinion. An all-knowing God does not know "most likely" that I would be an atheist. He knew 100% for certain before the universe was created that I would be an atheist.

You misunderstand how God views existence. First of all the future is always in motion. Every choice you could make now has a different future. God is able to see in all futures at once. Because he exist outside of time. He is only hoping we make the right choice. It is much more complex than that, but that is the simplest way that I can think of to put it.