Universal Basic Income to be tried in Stockton Ca

[bobhikes]

Look them up in the dictionary. That's what those words mean to me.

Here's a definition for you.

Universal basic income definition
A basic income (also called basic income guarantee, Citizen's Income, unconditional basic income, universal basic income (UBI), or universal demogrant[2]) is a form of social security[3] in which all citizens or residents of a country receive a regular, unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, ...

Can't find welfare anywhere in the definition, so as you requested I will stand by the dictionary definition.

 

[Jumi]

By definition it's not income.

Perhaps in your country definitions are different. Where I live, welfare is also taxed. Basic income... that's not taxed.

 

[sun rise]

What measurable outcomes would you like to see to call it a success? ...a failure?

That's an excellent question.

Right now people get welfare and their benefits are reduced when they work giving them little incentive to work for minimum wage. Getting rid of a massive bureaucracy would be an easy win with reduced overhead.

The biggest measure of success is what people do with the money. If the majority use it wisely to pay bills, make needed purchases etc, then I'd call it a success.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Here's a definition for you.

Universal basic income definition
A basic income (also called basic income guarantee, Citizen's Income, unconditional basic income, universal basic income (UBI), or universal demogrant[2]) is a form of social security[3] in which all citizens or residents of a country receive a regular, unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, ...

Can't find welfare anywhere in the definition, so as you requested I will stand by the dictionary definition.

Thanks for sharing, Allison.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Perhaps in your country definitions are different. Where I live, welfare is also taxed. Basic income... that's not taxed.

Try looking up the word for income in your dictionary. Let me know what it says.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Here's a definition for you.

Universal basic income definition
A basic income (also called basic income guarantee, Citizen's Income, unconditional basic income, universal basic income (UBI), or universal demogrant[2]) is a form of social security[3] in which all citizens or residents of a country receive a regular, unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, ...

Can't find welfare anywhere in the definition, so as you requested I will stand by the dictionary definition.

Looks like the lawyers changed the definition of social security security as well. Language is tricky.

 

[Jumi]

Try looking up the word for income in your dictionary. Let me know what it says.

I think you should look up basic income and that words history first so we can avoid a meaningless argument.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I think you should look up basic income and that words history first so we can avoid a meaningless argument.

Language is tricky.

 

[columbus]

Looks like the lawyers changed the definition of social security security as well. Language is tricky.

Language can definitely be tricky, because it's how people really use the words that matters. There's lots of grey areas with lots of words, dictionaries don't always capture all the usages.
If I sell something, it's only income if I am doing it professionally, according to the IRS. But it's still money I can spend, even if it's just some vegetables from my garden.
Tom

 

[Akivah]

That's an excellent question.

Right now people get welfare and their benefits are reduced when they work giving them little incentive to work for minimum wage. Getting rid of a massive bureaucracy would be an easy win with reduced overhead.

The biggest measure of success is what people do with the money. If the majority use it wisely to pay bills, make needed purchases etc, then I'd call it a success.

OK, if that's the measure of success, then how about if the government directly pays for their food, instead of just giving them cash?

 

[sun rise]

OK, if that's the measure of success, then how about if the government directly pays for their food, instead of just giving them cash?

The various food conglomerates would lobby to get their products on the list ignoring what is best for the recipients. And then you might have some who can grow their own veges and don't need extra food but do need clothing, for example.

 

[columbus]

OK, if that's the measure of success, then how about if the government directly pays for their food, instead of just giving them cash?

They sort of do that now, food stamps and WIC is supposed to pay for food. And only real food, not junk.

But it's pretty easy to scam. People just sell their benefits for 50 cents on the dollar, or trade food for booze, or something.
Tom

 

[Akivah]

That's an excellent question.

Right now people get welfare and their benefits are reduced when they work giving them little incentive to work for minimum wage. Getting rid of a massive bureaucracy would be an easy win with reduced overhead.

The biggest measure of success is what people do with the money. If the majority use it wisely to pay bills, make needed purchases etc, then I'd call it a success.

The various food conglomerates would lobby to get their products on the list ignoring what is best for the recipients. And then you might have some who can grow their own veges and don't need extra food but do need clothing, for example.

They sort of do that now, food stamps and WIC is supposed to pay for food. And only real food, not junk.

But it's pretty easy to scam. People just sell their benefits for 50 cents on the dollar, or trade food for booze, or something.
Tom

So giving people free food and rent now is too easy to scam or be abused. Certainly giving people free money is too easy to mis-use. Since you can't control what people use their money on, how could this giveaway ever meet your measure of success?

 

[columbus]

So giving people free food and rent now is too easy to scam or be abused. Certainly giving people free money is too easy to mis-use. Since you can't control what people use their money on, how could this giveaway ever meet your measure of success?

It won't.
Not as long as the systemic problems persist. I don't see any possibility of "success" in this endeavor. Just the possibility of improvement over the current ways of doing things.

It wouldn't take much to be an improvement. The current ways of doing this bite. Hard.
Tom