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Universalism and looking at things from a new perspective

The contradictions are not really important from a universalist perspective It's the fact they believe in something. You can connect to the spiritual through any meansbut you can't take them all as literal truth.

"You can connect to the spiritual through any means"
- Why are you not hosting classes to teach others this technique?
- What connection? What means?
+ I'm not one to say that people can have " an out of body experience", just because I have never had one, I just find it intriguing that you say it can be done through "any means".

Name three ways.

Please provide a link to a process that you utilize.

True story:
- My son practices meditation and various "spiritual" activities and claims he can achieve this level of consciousness, although I have never seen him do so, so I really don't know if he is speaking truthfully, or just speaking as to show arrogance.

Whatever the means he claims on how he achieved success, it sounds as though you too have achieved this level as well.

Why are neither of you famous and promoting your "knowledge" globally - in order for others to share in this "dream state" of sorts?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
A friend of mine (who should be joining the site soon.) Told me I was looking at all of spirituality from a far too narrow perspective and that if I kept it up I would never go anywhere but atheism.

Essentially what he said was that there is a sort of universal spiritual element to life and that we all just use different names to describe it. He told me for instance that he uses Hellenism to work with and be in contact with this spiritual part of life. He also told me I should not be so hard nosed and maybe just relax a bit and I could find my own spiritual guide if I stopped looking at things through a purely empiricist point of view.

I was just wondering what you all thought about this approach?

What you seek is not in your head.

Though all snowflakes are unique, all are composed of the universal substance of water.

There is no 'spiritual' world over there, and a 'material' world over here. There is but one world, and this is it. The Ordinary and The Miraculous are one and the same.

The more you seek the spiritual, the further from it you will be. It is as close to you as your next breath. In fact, it IS your next breath.

Allow the thinking mind to become subdued. It constantly wants to split reality into 'this and that' where no such duality exists to begin with.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
A friend of mine (who should be joining the site soon.) Told me I was looking at all of spirituality from a far too narrow perspective and that if I kept it up I would never go anywhere but atheism.

Essentially what he said was that there is a sort of universal spiritual element to life and that we all just use different names to describe it. He told me for instance that he uses Hellenism to work with and be in contact with this spiritual part of life. He also told me I should not be so hard nosed and maybe just relax a bit and I could find my own spiritual guide if I stopped looking at things through a purely empiricist point of view.

I was just wondering what you all thought about this approach?
Broadening your perspectival horizons is never a bad thing.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A friend of mine (who should be joining the site soon.) Told me I was looking at all of spirituality from a far too narrow perspective and that if I kept it up I would never go anywhere but atheism.

Essentially what he said was that there is a sort of universal spiritual element to life and that we all just use different names to describe it. He told me for instance that he uses Hellenism to work with and be in contact with this spiritual part of life. He also told me I should not be so hard nosed and maybe just relax a bit and I could find my own spiritual guide if I stopped looking at things through a purely empiricist point of view.

I was just wondering what you all thought about this approach?
your friend is correct. We experience and our eyeballs are a part of that "to experience." But the narratives we create become the experience itself.
 

corynski

Reality First!
Premium Member
I've been drawn to reality for some reason, I guess it seemed a good place to start. What's wrong with reality? Why are we inundated with unreality from the day we are born? What are we to gain from unreality? Yes, religion is part of a social structure and has been forever, and it serves a purpose. That doesn't mean it is real or true. But reality doesn't seem to be enough for those who accept whatever doctrine or belief system appeals to them for whatever reason. Just look, these belief systems and religions go back just a few thousands of years, but our human evolution goes back many, many thousands of years. Where was Yahweh a hundred thousand years ago? Has Yahweh done anything to help human evolution? Etc., etc., and so on..... Look, what's Mormonism? These people believe Joe Smith found some real tablets, etc., etc. Seems it's all about what is real or not. Read about the 30 Years War in Europe, when all the belief systems tried to eliminate the others by killing them. You belief X and I believe Y, so let's kill each other...... Seems reality is a better bet, even if it's more boring......
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you ever going to get around to your proof of that btw?
I will try to provide one.

Evidence that there is one Truth using minimalist criteria.

The Idea that all things come from one thing was posited by both Vedantic seers and Thales of Greece. Current science suggests this is correct in the following way:-
Every process in our universe is an effect of a singular event, the Big Bang and hence are fully united as effects of one over-arching causal event. The event space of the universe could have been independent worldlines, but they are not. They are all convergent in the past.

Every matter in the universe are various manifestations of one matter. This has not been shown yet, but string theory and other QG theories are formulated in such forms. Similarly all force from one force.

Thus its highly likely that the apparent diversification of phenomena is an apparent diversity of groups and forms rather than of fundamental entity or force. This supports the fundamental postulate that "there is only one thing that has become many things through diversification of groups and forms"

Finally we (and other beings like animals, gods etc.) are perceiving this world by our awareness. Thus awareness has two aspects

1)Awareness of the world. This changes all the time and also between people. But if the earlier analysis is correct, this diversity is that of modes and not essence. So essentially all of us are perceiving the one thing in its various modes (blind men and elephant)

2) Reflexive self awareness. The feature of awareness that loops back on itself so that it knows that it is aware. While the content of awareness changes, all awareness contains this constant self-aware aspect that is contiguous over a series of awareness events hence serving as a glue to hold them together. While many features of this self changes with content of consciousness, it's self-aware aspect remains constant. But, removing the changing content, the self_luminous nature of awareness is an invariant feature of all aware beings.

3)So we have an invariant self sense coupled with an awareness of various phenomenon, which, even though they look different, are actually emergent of same material and causal unity. These two things are called Purusha and Prakriti respectively.

4) Now the final postulate is that the identity rule that keep the self sense (atman) invariant under all awareness events is the same identity rule (Brahman) that keeps the essence of the world invariant through all causal processes in the outside world. Through it all X==X is maintained for both by the same identity rule. Thus the self in the world is the same self in consciousness. Atman==Brahman
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
I've been drawn to reality for some reason, I guess it seemed a good place to start. What's wrong with reality? Why are we inundated with unreality from the day we are born? What are we to gain from unreality? Yes, religion is part of a social structure and has been forever, and it serves a purpose. That doesn't mean it is real or true. But reality doesn't seem to be enough for those who accept whatever doctrine or belief system appeals to them for whatever reason. Just look, these belief systems and religions go back just a few thousands of years, but our human evolution goes back many, many thousands of years. Where was Yahweh a hundred thousand years ago? Has Yahweh done anything to help human evolution? Etc., etc., and so on..... Look, what's Mormonism? These people believe Joe Smith found some real tablets, etc., etc. Seems it's all about what is real or not. Read about the 30 Years War in Europe, when all the belief systems tried to eliminate the others by killing them. You belief X and I believe Y, so let's kill each other...... Seems reality is a better bet, even if it's more boring......

Religion is sort of like people getting into a boat to get to another shore, but during the voyage, they become transfixed by the structure of the boat, and when reaching the other shore, remain in the boat as a security issue, failing to disembark to live their new lives in spiritual freedom. Instead, they put off this new life for some concept of a Paradise in some distant time and place, usually after death, not realizing that what they seek and thirst for is only available in this eternal Present Moment.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
"You can connect to the spiritual through any means"
- Why are you not hosting classes to teach others this technique?
- What connection? What means?
+ I'm not one to say that people can have " an out of body experience", just because I have never had one, I just find it intriguing that you say it can be done through "any means".

Name three ways.

Please provide a link to a process that you utilize.

True story:
- My son practices meditation and various "spiritual" activities and claims he can achieve this level of consciousness, although I have never seen him do so, so I really don't know if he is speaking truthfully, or just speaking as to show arrogance.

Whatever the means he claims on how he achieved success, it sounds as though you too have achieved this level as well.

Why are neither of you famous and promoting your "knowledge" globally - in order for others to share in this "dream state" of sorts?

This kind of knowledge is not like factual knowledge. It is not exclusive. Everyone already has it, but most do not know they have it. So they search outside themselves for it in a never-ending pursuit. As the Buddha told us: "All beings have Buddha-nature", and as Yeshua also said: "The kingdom of God is within you". Enlightenment is the realization that you already have it; have always had it, but knowledge of its presence is overshadowed by the constant noise of the thinking mind and of outside distractions. Meditation is one way of subduing this noise and focusing on the source of this knowledge that is always there, within. Zen people call the noisy thinking mind 'monkey mind', as it is always jumping about, attaching first to this idea then that. When it becomes subdued, 'Big Mind' can then come into play. But this does not occur of the will, such as going after the fish with hook and bait; it is more like lowering the net and allowing the fish to swim in.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
4) Now the final postulate is that the identity rule that keep the self sense (atman) invariant under all awareness events is the same identity rule (Brahman) that keeps the essence of the world invariant through all causal processes in the outside world. Through it all X==X is maintained for both by the same identity rule. Thus the self in the world is the same self in consciousness. Atman==Brahman

One metaphor is gold. It always remains gold no matter the form it is fashioned into, such as gold chain. The world is the myriad forms that formless Brahman has assumed, just as all waves are what the formless ocean is doing at any given moment.
 
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