Unknown

[ChristineM]

What about unlucky nature?

It's natural

 

[Quintessence]

Just writing to say the more I've studied earth and life sciences, the less useful I find the distinction between what humans put in the "living" box and what humans put in the "nonliving" box. Given how interconnected and interdependent these various systems are, it feels more and more like a false binary. Then again, as a nondualist I tend to see most binaries as false, so... maybe that's not too surprising. But I came to feel that way studying the sciences (and maybe also a bit of philosophy).

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's natural

So is religion. Religion is not supernatural and religious people only do natural behavior.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Just writing to say the more I've studied earth and life sciences, the less useful I find the distinction between what humans put in the "living" box and what humans put in the "nonliving" box. Given how interconnected and interdependent these various systems are, it feels more and more like a false binary. Then again, as a nondualist I tend to see most binaries as false, so... maybe that's not too surprising. But I came to feel that way studying the sciences (and maybe also a bit of philosophy).

Nonetheless, organic matter can be distinguished from inorganic by distinctive characteristics. All matter is composed of molecules, but living things are made of biomolecules, organised into cells, which contain genetic material. Or something like that. Anyway, the chemistry of a living organism is complex, but the existence of complex chemistry has not been shown to be, by itself, a sufficient condition for life. Let alone conscious life, capable of attempting to unravel the mysteries of it's own existence.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It's natural

I can't think if anything in this world that isn't. Can you?

 

[ChristineM]

I can't think if anything in this world that isn't. Can you?

Many things that are manmade, example... atomic bombs and nuclear power plants

 

[SalixIncendium]

Many things that are manmade, example... atomic bombs and nuclear power plants

So the materials these items are made from or that which makes them occur outside of nature?

 

[ChristineM]

So the materials these items are made from or that which makes them occur outside of nature?

No ... but the way they are assembled is not natural

 

[SalixIncendium]

No ... but the way they are assembled is not natural

How so?

 

[ChristineM]

How so?

Do you ever see a nuclear power station naturally evolve?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you ever see a nuclear power station naturally evolve?

So something must be evolving to be considered 'natural?'

So glass of milk isn't 'natural?' Neither the glass nor the milk is naturally evolving, is it?

 

[ChristineM]

So something must be evolving to be considered 'natural?'

So glass of milk isn't 'natural?'

Cows evolved, cows (and other animals) produce milk. In fact, all mammals naturally produce milk

The glass itself is not a natural formation though it is man-made from natural materials.

Yes everything natural evolves, at one time this universe was hot plasma, everything natural evolved from this state

 

[SalixIncendium]

Cows evolved, cows (and other animals) produce milk. In fact, all mammals naturally produce milk

The glass itself is not a natural formation though it is man-made from natural materials.

Yes everything natural evolves, at one time this universe was hot plasma, everything natural evolved from this state

We're not talking about "natural formations." We're talking about 'natural.'

So we've determined that a glass is not a natural formation, but it is natural, though man-made with sand and heat. Man, the one that made it, is also natural. All natural materials.

So what materials outside of nature are nuclear bombs and power plants made from?

 

[RestlessSoul]

We're not talking about "natural formations." We're talking about 'natural.'

So we've determined that a glass is not a natural formation, but it is natural, though man-made with sand and heat. Man, the one that made it, is also natural. All natural materials.

So what materials outside of nature are nuclear bombs and power plants made from?

The idea that anything man-made is unnatural, comes from the common perception of man as a being outside of nature. While I personally consider this perception to be illusory, it is fundamental to the predicament in which mankind currently finds itself.

This is perhaps the true meaning of our expulsion from the Garden of Eden; that intellect which empowers us, that quality which makes us "in apprehension, how like a God", is the very quality that alienates us from our own nature. This is the paradox we somehow have to resolve, in order to return to the garden.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The idea that anything man-made is unnatural, comes from the common perception of man as a being outside of nature. While I personally consider this perception to be illusory, it is fundamental to the predicament in which mankind currently finds itself.

I was getting to this point. You stole my thunder.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I was getting to this point. You stole my thunder.

Oh, sorry man. Didn’t mean to do that

 

[SalixIncendium]

Oh, sorry man. Didn’t mean to do that

No worries.

 

[Stevicus]

The idea that anything man-made is unnatural, comes from the common perception of man as a being outside of nature. While I personally consider this perception to be illusory, it is fundamental to the predicament in which mankind currently finds itself.

This is perhaps the true meaning of our expulsion from the Garden of Eden; that intellect which empowers us, that quality which makes us "in apprehension, how like a God", is the very quality that alienates us from our own nature. This is the paradox we somehow have to resolve, in order to return to the garden.

We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden

 

[RestlessSoul]

We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion year old carbon
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden

Delighted to discover that Joni Mitchell is still going strong, and due to perform live next month at the Gorge Amphitheatre, Washington State. I don't want to know what the tickets are priced at though; don't want to shatter another illusion about the enduring power of 60s idealism.

 

[ChristineM]

We're not talking about "natural formations." We're talking about 'natural.'

So we've determined that a glass is not a natural formation, but it is natural, though man-made with sand and heat. Man, the one that made it, is also natural. All natural materials.

So what materials outside of nature are nuclear bombs and power plants made from?

Natural is natural, man made is man made. There is an excellent reason that manufactures don't call polyester shirts "natural fibre"

Oh and by the way, there are several (around 30 i believe) heavy elements (above atomic weight 92) that are not natural but man made