'Unprecedented' events as India and Canada expel respective diplomats

[danieldemol]

'Diplomatic ties between India and Canada are rapidly deteriorating, with Canadian police announcing they've discovered Indian government agents involved in 'serious criminal activity' on their soil.'

Source: 'Unprecedented' events as India and Canada expel respective diplomats


If I've understood the report correctly it seems Canadian police suspect the Indian government of having ties to the homicide of a Sikh separatist in Canada.

I suppose there is two sides to every story, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a foreign government killing citizens of my country if it were to hypothetically happen here in Australia.

 

[ajay0]

In 11-9-2001, Islamic militants took out the world trade centers, Pentagon and almost the white house as well with 4 hijacked American jets, killing over 3000 American citizens. This resulted in the Anglo-American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan later on.

The air india crash in 23-6- 1985, sabotaged by Sikh extremists based in Canada, killed over 24 Indian citizens, 268 Canadian citizens and 27 British citizens . Fortunately, Indian casualties were low but this was not the case for the western citizens especially Canadians.

Consequently , Indian security forces have had Sikh militants in Cananda on their watch-list to prevent any such similar tragic events. The American response was to invade Iraq and Afghanistan to wipe out the anti-American extremists .

India had not similarly invaded Canada with its significant military strength due to common democratic values and friendly ties, but has placed Sikh extremists in their watchlist and have reported their activities to the Canadian officials whose response was lax. Poorly regulated immigration laws have resulted in Canada being a magnet for wanted gangsters and criminals from other countries.

Many Nazi war criminals have similarly entered Canada and had been living comfortably for decades without being taken to justice.

Shielding Nazis in Canada the wrong use of time, resources

Not releasing the names of alleged Nazi war criminals who entered Canada would be a continued protection of individuals who perpetrated the Holocaust, or collaborated with the Nazis.

www.hilltimes.com

Justin Trudeau apologises after Nazi veteran honoured in parliament

The prime minister says it was a mistake that "deeply embarrassed parliament and Canada".

www.bbc.com

There has been a discussion on this topic last year as well...

The case of Indian Intelligence and Mr Singh

Spy agencies do what they have to do. The Russian FSB operates with happy abandon. Litvineko was poisoned with Polonium. Russia still got to host the 2018 Football. Saudi’s disposed of someone in an embassy. However, the leadership are good. They promote women’s rights and religious tolerance...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[danieldemol]

In 11-9-2001, Islamic militants took out the world trade centers, Pentagon and almost the white house as well with 4 hijacked American jets, killing over 3000 American citizens. This resulted in the Anglo-American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan later on.

The air india crash in 23-6- 1985, sabotaged by Sikh extremists based in Canada, killed over 24 Indian citizens, 268 Canadian citizens and 27 British citizens . Fortunately, Indian casualties were low but this was not the case for the western citizens especially Canadians.

Consequently , Indian security forces have had Sikh militants in Cananda on their watch-list to prevent any such similar tragic events. The American response was to invade Iraq and Afghanistan to wipe out the anti-American extremists .

India had not similarly invaded Canada with its significant military strength due to common democratic values and friendly ties, but has placed Sikh extremists in their watchlist and have reported their activities to the Canadian officials whose response was lax. Poorly regulated immigration laws have resulted in Canada being a magnet for wanted gangsters and criminals from other countries.

Many Nazi war criminals have similarly entered Canada and had been living comfortably for decades without being taken to justice.

Shielding Nazis in Canada the wrong use of time, resources

Not releasing the names of alleged Nazi war criminals who entered Canada would be a continued protection of individuals who perpetrated the Holocaust, or collaborated with the Nazis.

www.hilltimes.com

Justin Trudeau apologises after Nazi veteran honoured in parliament

The prime minister says it was a mistake that "deeply embarrassed parliament and Canada".

www.bbc.com

There has been a discussion on this topic last year as well...

The case of Indian Intelligence and Mr Singh

Spy agencies do what they have to do. The Russian FSB operates with happy abandon. Litvineko was poisoned with Polonium. Russia still got to host the 2018 Football. Saudi’s disposed of someone in an embassy. However, the leadership are good. They promote women’s rights and religious tolerance...

www.religiousforums.com

Do you have evidence that this Sikh leader was a militant though?

In Australia we have people who believe all Palestine should belong to Israel, all Israel should belong to Palestine, Tibet should be independent, Tibet should be part of China etc etc.

So long as they peacefully express their views and do not preach militancy or engage in terrorist activities we do not round them up as otherwise our vibrant multicultural society would disintegrate into a bloodbath of foreign wars in my view.

So I would say that in my view unless you have evidence of their links to terror your whataboutery is irrelevant and Russia? Please! If India compares favourably to them I would suggest they have cleared a pretty low bar.

 

[ajay0]

Do you have evidence that this Sikh leader was a militant though?

In Australia we have people who believe all Palestine should belong to Israel, all Israel should belong to Palestine, Tibet should be independent, Tibet should be part of China etc etc.

So long as they peacefully express their views and do not preach militancy or engage in terrorist activities we do not round them up as otherwise our vibrant multicultural society would disintegrate into a bloodbath of foreign wars in my view.

I am not an analyst. All I know is that the terrorist event blowing up a civilian plane in 1985 killing over 200 canadians had its origin in Canada , and the poor law and order and lack of professinalism amongst the regulatory forces over there ensured that the culprits went scot-free with light charges.

This kind of poor leadership would not be tolerated in any other country, and could be a reason why Cananda is not doing that well in the domestic or international stage.

So I would say that in my view unless you have evidence of their links to terror your whataboutery is irrelevant and Russia? Please! If India compares favourably to them I would suggest they have cleared a pretty low bar.

See, Russia and France are strategic partners of India, and there is no need to bring them to this discussion.

The blowing up of the airliner by Sikh extremists based in canada in 1985, which have been brought to light in by Canadian investigaors themselves is enough proof to show that Canada is not exactly a safe and secure country as such, and the activities of the sikh extremists over there should be subjected to microscopic scrutiny.

It should be remembered that much more western citizens died in the airliner bombing than Indians.

If there is no proper scrutiny of such activities, there could be more bombings going on, with Canada getting a bad name in the process, as has happened with the Nazi debacle.

 

[danieldemol]

I am not an analyst. All I know is that the terrorist event blowing up a civilian plane in 1985 killing over 200 canadians had its origin in Canada , and the poor law and order and lack of professinalism amongst the regulatory forces over there ensured that the culprits went scot-free with light charges.

How does one go scott-free and recieve a light charge? You contradict yourself in my view.

Additionally, 'Inderjit Singh Reyat had been ordered to live at a halfway house following his release from prison one year ago, after serving two decades behind bars...'
Source: Canada frees man convicted for 1985 Air India bombing that killed 329 people

20 years is not a light charge in my view and I would suggest it is heavy spin on your part to suggest it is.

The blowing up of the airliner by Sikh extremists based in canada in 1985, which have been brought to light in by Canadian investigaors themselves is enough proof to show that Canada is not exactly a safe and secure country as such

How many Canadian airlines have been bombed since 1985?

, and the activities of the sikh extremists over there should be subjected to microscopic scrutiny.

Sure, but you dont even know if the person killed was an extremist in my view, you are just blindly supporting your government without even raising the question.

It should be remembered that much more western citizens died in the airliner bombing than Indians.

Then perhaps it should be up to Canada to determine if Reyat was sufficiently rehabilitated to be returned to society if they are the ones who most suffered in my view.

If there is no proper scrutiny of such activities, there could be more bombings going on, with Canada getting a bad name in the process, as has happened with the Nazi debacle.

Who got bombed during the Nazi debacle?

 

[ajay0]

How does one go scott-free and recieve a light charge? You contradict yourself in my view.

Additionally, 'Inderjit Singh Reyat had been ordered to live at a halfway house following his release from prison one year ago, after serving two decades behind bars...'
Source: Canada frees man convicted for 1985 Air India bombing that killed 329 people

This guy killed over 295 foreign western citizens and got a mere 20 year sentence and not life sentence. What kind of deterrent punishment is this !

Also this is something based on extensive planning and logistics, and only one has been nabbed.

If yourself or your family was there in the downed airliner, would you be happy with such a sentence, investigation and prosecution process !

 

[GoodAttention]

Do you have evidence that this Sikh leader was a militant though?

In Australia we have people who believe all Palestine should belong to Israel, all Israel should belong to Palestine, Tibet should be independent, Tibet should be part of China etc etc.

So long as they peacefully express their views and do not preach militancy or engage in terrorist activities we do not round them up as otherwise our vibrant multicultural society would disintegrate into a bloodbath of foreign wars in my view.

So I would say that in my view unless you have evidence of their links to terror your whataboutery is irrelevant and Russia? Please! If India compares favourably to them I would suggest they have cleared a pretty low bar.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen more Australians protesting against the release of Umar Patek, bomb maker of the terrorist attack on October 10, 2002 in Bali, Indonesia.

The attack killed 202 people including 88 Australians. I don't think the release of such a person before 20 years of incarceration is justice.

Adding this for context, as painful as it is to be comparing such tragedies.

Australia government describes release of chief bombmaker in Bali bombings a 'horrible day' for victims

The chief Bali bomber is released from his Indonesian prison after serving little more than half his sentence in a move the Australian Home Affairs Minister has described as a "horrible day for Bali bombing victims".

www.abc.net.au

 

[danieldemol]

This guy killed over 295 foreign western citizens and got a mere 20 year sentence and not life sentence. What kind of deterrent punishment is this !

You tell me, how many Canadian airlines have been bombed since 1985?

Also this is something based on extensive planning and logistics, and only one has been nabbed.

If yourself or your family was there in the downed airliner, would you be happy with such a sentence, investigation and prosecution process !

Not necessarily, because emotions cloud the ability to reason. Hence the reason we appoint dispassionate disinterested parties as judges in my view.

I've answered your questions, perhaps you could do me the courtesy of answering mine as presented in post #5 take your time in my view.

 

[danieldemol]

Personally, I would have liked to have seen more Australians protesting against the release of Umar Patek, bomb maker of the terrorist attack on October 10, 2002 in Bali, Indonesia.

The attack killed 202 people including 88 Australians. I don't think the release of such a person before 20 years of incarceration is justice.

Adding this for context, as painful as it is to be comparing such tragedies.

Australia government describes release of chief bombmaker in Bali bombings a 'horrible day' for victims

The chief Bali bomber is released from his Indonesian prison after serving little more than half his sentence in a move the Australian Home Affairs Minister has described as a "horrible day for Bali bombing victims".

www.abc.net.au

Well he only served 10 of his 20 year sentence, even so of the 2 survivors quoted 1 said his rehabilitation was adequate and the other said it wasn't.

So in my view there is no direct comparison here, and still nobody has answered the question of whether there was evidence that the Sikh separatist killed was a militant or at least a preacher of militancy.

 

[GoodAttention]

Well he only served 10 of his 20 year sentence, even so of the 2 survivors quoted 1 said his rehabilitation was adequate and the other said it wasn't.

I think we also need to appreciate that this low-life was hiding out in Pakistan until 2011 when he was arrested. Clearly he avoided justice, and then the Indonesians just added more leniency for him.

So in my view there is no direct comparison here, and still nobody has answered the question of whether there was evidence that the Sikh separatist killed was a militant or at least a preacher of militancy.

If you want a more direct comparison consider Abdelbaset al-Megrahi who was jailed for life in the UK for his connection to Pan Am Flight 103 which killed 270 people. Regarding your question about the Sikh separatist killed, it is a very sensitive issue. India doesn't tolerate any talk of separatism from any state within it, and rightly so. Unfortunately Canada has a massive Sikh population who like to...voice their opinions loudly.

Some Sikhs worldwide rally around this cause, including in Australia. For India it seems to bring back memories of Operation Blue Star and the assassination of Indira Gandhi by two of her own bodyguards who were Sikhs, and one who she knew very well.

This doesn't answer your question, but perhaps gives further context.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In 11-9-2001, Islamic militants took out the world trade centers,

And this is 2024. Could you please speak to the Canadian charges reported in this AP article?

 

[sayak83]

'Diplomatic ties between India and Canada are rapidly deteriorating, with Canadian police announcing they've discovered Indian government agents involved in 'serious criminal activity' on their soil.'

Source: 'Unprecedented' events as India and Canada expel respective diplomats


If I've understood the report correctly it seems Canadian police suspect the Indian government of having ties to the homicide of a Sikh separatist in Canada.

I suppose there is two sides to every story, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with a foreign government killing citizens of my country if it were to hypothetically happen here in Australia.

No country has the right to do extrajudicial killing in another country's soil. Such an act is no different from an act of war in my opinion.
I am not sure if the charges are sound though. It's possible that Tradeau is playing upto to expatriate Sikh based. Let's see how the case proceeds.
If proved, it would be another example of the fundamental incompetence of the Modi led govt as regards to foreign policy. The litany includes ceding territory to China in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh, losing a millitary base in Maldives, losing Bangladesh, Srilanka and Nepal as allies to China...and now losing NATO and commonwealth nations over stupid assassinations of non entities in Canada when a Pacific wide millitary alliance is vitally important.
But then there is a difference between actual competency and hot air full national jingoism.
Oh well.

 

[ajay0]

And this is 2024. Could you please speak to the Canadian charges reported in this AP article?

After 9/11, Australia, Canada and UK participated with the US in the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq based on reports of wmd which was later found to be baseless.

As India has the second largest army on earth , they requested India to send troops as well with promise of freebees, which India refused as the invasion was against international law and lacked UN approval.

So 9/11 has context over here as well.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

After 9/11, Australia, Canada and UK participated with the US in the Anglo-American invasion of Iraq based on reports of wmd which was later found to be baseless.

As India has the second largest army on earth , they requested India to send troops as well with promise of freebees, which India refused as the invasion was against international law and lacked UN approval.

So 9/11 has context over here as well.

Everything has context, and it's useful to be reminded of this. Now, again, could you please address the Canadian charges? If not, be it through lack of knowledge or lack of desire, just say so.

 

[ajay0]

Everything has context, and it's useful to be reminded of this. Now, again, could you please address the Canadian charges? If not, be it through lack of knowledge or lack of desire, just say so.

Canadian charges are that Indian agents had performed pre-emptive assassinations of Canadian citizens on their own soil. The Indian context is that certain Canadian citizens harbor malicious designs towards India as shown by the air liner bombing and Canadian authorities are lax over it.

I don't know much other than that. But yes, it is possible that India has a large espionage network around the world to look after its interests on account of its large international population.

 

[Vinayaka]

No country has the right to do extrajudicial killing in another country's soil. Such an act is no different from an act of war in my opinion.
I am not sure if the charges are sound though. It's possible that Tradeau is playing upto to expatriate Sikh based. Let's see how the case proceeds.
If proved, it would be another example of the fundamental incompetence of the Modi led govt as regards to foreign policy. The litany includes ceding territory to China in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh, losing a millitary base in Maldives, losing Bangladesh, Srilanka and Nepal as allies to China...and now losing NATO and commonwealth nations over stupid assassinations of non entities in Canada when a Pacific wide millitary alliance is vitally important.
But then there is a difference between actual competency and hot air full national jingoism.
Oh well.

Trudeau, and others have mis-read this, but lots of folks do. Most Sikhs in Canada don't support the Khalistan independence movement. They are a minority within the Sikh community, so he may well lose votes over this.

I disagree with foreign governments infiltrating other countries (CIA had a long history of this in Latin America) for their own gains, but I also disagree with my country's weak assessment of just who immigrants are when they enter. Of course, that's not as easy as it may sound.

Another sad outcome is the possibility of creating a lot of disharmony with the Sikh community inside Canada. There are 3 gurdwaras within a couple of miles of me.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Canadian charges are that Indian agents had performed pre-emptive assassinations of Canadian citizens on their own soil. The Indian context is that certain Canadian citizens harbor malicious designs towards India ...

As quoted by the AP article referenced in post #11:

Monday’s tit-for-tat expulsions came after Canada told India on Sunday that its top diplomat in the country is a person of interest in the 2023 assassination of Sikh activist Hardeep Singh Nijjar, and that police have uncovered evidence of an intensifying campaign against Canadian citizens by agents of the Indian government.​

Perhaps noting "top diplomat" and "intensifying campaign" would have provided useful context as well.

As for the current situation, what specific "malicious designs" are you claiming and with what concrete evidence?

 

[ajay0]

As for the current situation, what specific "malicious designs" are you claiming and with what concrete evidence?

Dude, you seem to be insinuating as if I am the intellectual author of the assasination as well as the assassin. You probably want to get the story from me so as to create a new bestselling espionage novel as well as the rights to the movie/movie series as well, so as to get enough money to pay for expensive healthcare and increasing living costs.

All I can say is that I am neither both and am just an innocent bystander who don't know much. However I am okay with giving a fictional story provided I am also given a certain percentage of both the book and the movie royalties.

If my percentage is cut, there is a good chance that the story will not be that credible as well so please no bargaining.

 

[danieldemol]

Dude, you seem to be insinuating as if I am the intellectual author of the assasination as well as the assassin. You probably want to get the story from me so as to create a new bestselling espionage novel as well as the rights to the movie/movie series as well, so as to get enough money to pay for expensive healthcare and increasing living costs.

All I can say is that I am neither both and am just an innocent bystander who don't know much. However I am okay with giving a fictional story provided I am also given a certain percentage of both the book and the movie royalties.

If my percentage is cut, there is a good chance that the story will not be that credible as well so please no bargaining.

To be fair, you are defending the assassination without any known evidence that it was justified in my view.

 

[ajay0]

To be fair, you are defending the assassination without any known evidence that it was justified in my view.

Wow. You seem to be insinuating as well that I know more about this assassination than the Indian government and security apparatus. I am obviously flattered that you got this impression of me though I just gave some vague thoughts of mine on the subject.

Since I appear so convincing, perhaps I should try my hand at an espionage novel.