"Upon this rock", which rock?

[metis]

I find the problem with this, is when we look up the Essenes, some sites go as far as saying they were a sect of the Pharisees.

One can debate that but they certainly didn't see it that way, which is one reason why they wanted seclusion from the others.

Our knowledge of what happened, has been heavily influenced by those who wrote the history books.

Yep.

The amount of condemnations of Pharisaic mentality, and the amount of Essene ideas, would make me believe that though Yeshua knew their doctrine, he wasn't one of them, else his whole testimony doesn't add up (Matthew 5:20).

No, without a doubt he was of that tradition based on his approach and also what he believed. When one carefully reads the Sermon On the Mount, for example, it is "Pharisee" all the way.

 

[pearl]

No, without a doubt he was of that tradition based on his approach and also what he believed. When one carefully reads the Sermon On the Mount, for example, it is "Pharisee" all the way.

True. Jesus is speaking completely within the confines of the arguments of the Judaism of His time,
using customary terminology in rabbinical discussion.
The opinion of previous Torah exegetes is given first; thereafter the speaker gives his own interpretation as a contribution to the correct understanding (the ‘establishment’) of the Torah.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Could someone explain the following verses? I Cor 10:4 says the rock was Jesus. I Cor 3:11 says Jesus is the foundation. Eph 2:20 says Jesus is the cornerstone. Psalm 18:2 says the Lord is my rock. 2 Sam 22:2 says the Lord is my rock. If all these verse and more say that Jesus is the rock and the foundation, why would Jesus then call Peter the rock and build a church on Peter.

 

[wizanda]

Could someone explain the following verses? I Cor 10:4 says the rock was Jesus. I Cor 3:11 says Jesus is the foundation. Eph 2:20 says Jesus is the cornerstone. Psalm 18:2 says the Lord is my rock. 2 Sam 22:2 says the Lord is my rock. If all these verse and more say that Jesus is the rock and the foundation, why would Jesus then call Peter the rock and build a church on Peter.

I believe Paul was identifying certain passages in the Hebrew, that refer to the Rock of Salvation (Yeshua).

Paul had studied the Tanakh about the Chief Corner Stone (Psalms 118), and created an ideology of us being the Bricks of the Temple of the Lord.

As far as I can see Paul understood we have one God, and one Lord; where he believed Yeshua to be the Lord incarnate, and the God Most High above him.


In my understanding of the Bible, when Yeshua/Yehoshua called Simon petros (Matthew 16:18), that fulfils prophecy in Zechariah 3:9, and Isaiah 8:14-16.

Petros implies a small rock, like a Pebble; Petras is a bigger rock, like a cliff, or foundation stone.

In the Parable of the Seed Sower, the seeds that fall on 'Stony Ground' is plural of Petros - 'Petrodes'.


I don't think Yeshua said the church was built on Simon, more that he'd help establish his Church down here near Hell.

Take into account straight after Yeshua gave Simon this calling, he calls Simon satan (Matthew 16:23), saying 'he follows the ways of man, not God'.

In my opinion.

 

[metis]

Could someone explain the following verses? I Cor 10:4 says the rock was Jesus. I Cor 3:11 says Jesus is the foundation. Eph 2:20 says Jesus is the cornerstone. Psalm 18:2 says the Lord is my rock. 2 Sam 22:2 says the Lord is my rock. If all these verse and more say that Jesus is the rock and the foundation, why would Jesus then call Peter the rock and build a church on Peter.

Jesus is referred to as the "Cornerstone", which is more significant than being a rock. Also, it was Jesus who changed Simon's name to "Cephas", which means "rock" or "stone" in Aramaic. Thus, the debate, imo, should be was Jesus building the Church on Peter or on Peter's faith after all was said and done-- or maybe both?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Jesus is referred to as the "Cornerstone", which is more significant than being a rock. Also, it was Jesus who changed Simon's name to "Cephas", which means "rock" or "stone" in Aramaic. Thus, the debate, imo, should be was Jesus building the Church on Peter or on Peter's faith after all was said and done-- or maybe both?

Thank you Metis. Once again you have raised an interesting point. Peter's faith was indeed great and would form an important part of the church. Was the church built on that faith? Who can say for sure? But something to think about and explore.