US Capitol rioters await Trump pardons

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Absolutely. Except that I would rephrase it as believing something you know is true even though "objectively" speaking you can't, couldn't, know it's true. Subjective truth comes from the fact that you and I, every normal person, possesses the divine spirit, until they trade it in for belief in objectivity. It's money, so to say, to say that the epistemological reorientation whereby subjectivity is traded for belief in so-called objectivity, is the true root of all evil.

In light of this thread, the sad thing is that people on the left orient to subjective truth more willingly than people on the right. But since they misinterpret their subjective truths for being objective, they're often weaker than those on the right, who though they don't get subjective truth as correct as the left, at least orient better to the fact that no truth is truly objective.



John

And now, thank you, I know everything I need to know about you.

 

[Revoltingest]

As noted earlier in the thread, the courts weren't willing to entertain a case that would require a duly elected President of the United States, Joe Biden, to be removed from office. In other words, the cases were all thrown out because the courts were abiding by the fact that Joe Biden won the election. They simply weren't willing to entertain the possibility a court case would have to overturn the election.

Trump's lawyers presented no evidence in any
of their suits. The suits were "entertained".

Trump is immortal.

Oh, really?

Which leads me to answer a question you ask later in the message. Yes I love President Trump. Absolutely.

That would explain the judgement.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Trump's lawyers presented no evidence in any
of their suits. The suits were "entertained".

It's like these MAGA folks have buried their heads in the sand these past four years.

Giuliani told Arizona official ‘We just don’t have the evidence’ of voter fraud

Former Trump lawyer acknowledged his efforts to overturn the election were based on mere ‘theories’, officials recall

www.theguardian.com

Sidney Powell’s legal defense: ‘Reasonable people’ wouldn’t believe her election fraud claims

Lawyers for the Trump ally claim she was just sharing an opinion when she said the election was stolen using machines built to rig races for Hugo Chavez.

www.nbcnews.com

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3977965-second-trump-hired-firm-found-2020-fraud-claims-were-all-false/

Cyber Ninjas, company that led Arizona GOP election 'audit,' is shutting down

Arizona election officials this week released a report rebutting almost every claim by Cyber Ninjas in its ballot review.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[John D. Brey]

And now, thank you, I know everything I need to know about you.

So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween,​

tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean,​

and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen!​

​

John Godfrey Saxe.​

John

 

[Heyo]

So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween,​

tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean,​

and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen!​

​

John Godfrey Saxe.​

John

I want to join @Evangelicalhumanist in thanking you. Your honesty has given me much insight into the psychology of the US right.

 

[John D. Brey]

I want to join @Evangelicalhumanist in thanking you. Your honesty has given me much insight into the psychology of the US right.

I'm pretty sure the thank you from @Evangelicalhumanist was seething with sanctified sarcasm, and maybe yours more so. But it is interesting to see just how different our ways of thinking are. I remember when Pennsylvania's Senator, Fetterman, was speaking of how Trump voters in Pennsylvania absolutely love Trump. He said it was really something to see, and he wished he could understand the phenomenon. He (Fetterman) came across so authentic it gave me great respect for him. I realized he and I really are brothers. We're just conceived from different epistemological mothers.



John

 

[Heyo]

I'm pretty sure the thank you from @Evangelicalhumanist was seething with sanctified sarcasm, and maybe yours more so.

Oh no, it was sincere. It isn't easy to get answers from Trump supporters, and yours were not only on topic, but also, as I believe, honest. I'm now more convinced than ever that you are delusional.

But it is interesting to see just how different our ways of thinking are. I remember when Pennsylvania's Senator, Fetterman, was speaking of how Trump voters in Pennsylvania absolutely love Trump. He said it was really something to see, and he wished he could understand the phenomenon. He (Fetterman) came across so authentic it gave me great respect for him. I realized he and I really are brothers. We're just conceived from different epistemological mothers.

Love? It's more like worship. And epistemology, you believe what Trump says, that's your epistemology.
You see, we are far from being brothers, but that doesn't hold me from thanking you, when you do partake in honest conversation.

 

[John D. Brey]

I'm now more convinced than ever that you are delusional.

One of the weaknesses of a forum like this, where there's no face-to-face communication, is the fact that, as the language experts tell us, something like 75% of communicative clarity comes from non-verbal queues. If you said the statement above to my face, not only could I slug you in the face (I'm being facetious), but I would be better able to ascertain (from non-verbal queues) how much of your statement is meant to be derogatory, versus how much of it is merely a thoughtful evaluation of the circumstances from your perspective?

In the context of how you stated it, which is all I have to go on, it wasn't meant as derogatory, even though the use of the word "delusional" carries some derogatory baggage with it.

If I assume you used the word "delusional," devoid of any derogatory baggage, then I'd point out that yes, I very well may be delusional. But that might be just as true of you too. Which is why I, in the lingo of Jay Z, came to the fork in the road and went straight. Rather than taking sides, mine, naturally, I entered a discussion of epistemology, in order to better ascertain, or at least argue, whether I exhibit tell-tale signs of delusion, or whether you and Evangelicalhumanist do?



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Love? It's more like worship.

Danica Patrick did it for the love of her country​

Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nothing. Danica Patrick worked her tail off for Donald J. Trump for free. While insufferable Hollywood types like Beyonce and Oprah were paid upwards of $1 million (!!!!!!) to speak at her rallies, Trump paid Danica Patrick exactly zero dollars.​

​

She did it because she loved her country and she believed in what Trump was doing. And guess what, Dems? Get your notebooks out and pencils ready, because that's lesson No. 1 from this ***-beating.​

​

Stop paying people to talk on your behalf. Either people love you enough and believe in you enough to do it for free, or they don't really like you at all. That's the difference between the Democrats and the Republicans right now. Right there.​

​

Outkick.​

​

John

 

[Revoltingest]

One of the weaknesses of a forum like this, where there's no face-to-face communication, is the fact that, as the language experts tell us, something like 75% of communicative clarity comes from non-verbal queues.

I see this as an advantage.
I don't want to pre-judge people who look dumb.

 

[Heyo]

One of the weaknesses of a forum like this, where there's no face-to-face communication, is the fact that, as the language experts tell us, something like 75% of communicative clarity comes from non-verbal queues. If you said the statement above to my face, not only could I slug you in the face (I'm being facetious), but I would be better able to ascertain (from non-verbal queues) how much of your statement is meant to be derogatory, versus how much of it is merely a thoughtful evaluation of the circumstances from your perspective?

In the context of how you stated it, which is all I have to go on, it wasn't meant as derogatory, even though the use of the word "delusional" carries some derogatory baggage with it.

If I assume you used the word "delusional," devoid of any derogatory baggage, then I'd point out that yes, I very well may be delusional. But that might be just as true of you too. Which is why I, in the lingo of Jay Z, came to the fork in the road and went straight. Rather than taking sides, mine, naturally, I entered a discussion of epistemology, in order to better ascertain, or at least argue, whether I exhibit tell-tale signs of delusion, or whether you and Evangelicalhumanist do?



John

I use "delusional" in the clinical sense, not derogatory. And I understand that I seem delusional to Trump supporters.
As I already pointed out, we have reached a point in the debate where we don't disagree about the evaluation of reality, but reality itself. And that is exactly why one of us must be delusional. One of us has "a false fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence".
Kellyanne Conway created this age when she said that Trump presented "alternative facts" about his inauguration crowd. That was the moment when Trumpists learned that they could simply deny reality without loosing credibility (among themselves). That was the big schism in epistemology. For one group, the source of information was the consensus of reputable news agencies, for the other it was the Word of Trump™.

 

[BrokenBread]

US Capitol rioters await Trump pardons

DONALD Trump supporters who were charged with storming the US Capitol are now expecting pardons from the incoming American president, who has lauded them as “patriots” and “political prisoners.” Read more at The Business Times.

www.businesstimes.com.sg

Trump has said he would pardon them, so now they're all lining up and ready for their pardons.

"Inclined" (Trump) does not mean a certainty.
"many" (Trump) does not mean all.
I would expect to see more commuting of sentences that were excessive on a case by case basis .
Trump has also said that not only are there some that deserve jail time but that there are undoubtedly some who should be charged but have not been charged.
Gulp !
I take it then you are okay if through the examination of official records that will soon be looked at as never before all individuals newly discovered to be involved being criminally charged ?
Including the crimes of concealing evidence?
Also to include criminal dereliction of assigned duties ?

 

[Stevicus]

I use "delusional" in the clinical sense, not derogatory. And I understand that I seem delusional to Trump supporters.
As I already pointed out, we have reached a point in the debate where we don't disagree about the evaluation of reality, but reality itself. And that is exactly why one of us must be delusional. One of us has "a false fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence".
Kellyanne Conway created this age when she said that Trump presented "alternative facts" about his inauguration crowd. That was the moment when Trumpists learned that they could simply deny reality without loosing credibility (among themselves). That was the big schism in epistemology. For one group, the source of information was the consensus of reputable news agencies, for the other it was the Word of Trump™.

What I've noticed in these past years is that a lot of people seem to state opinions, then call them "facts" and expect everyone else to accept them as facts (lest they be branded as "delusional," which is also just an opinion, not a fact).

 

[Stevicus]

I take it then you are okay if through the examination of official records that will soon be looked at as never before all individuals newly discovered to be involved being criminally charged ?
Including the process crimes of concealing evidence?
Also to include criminal dereliction of assigned duties ?

Yeah, I'm okay with that. Aren't you?

 

[BrokenBread]

Yeah, I'm okay with that. Aren't you?

Can't wait to see it happen.
Especially for those at the top whose willful dereliction of their official assigned duties made it all possible.

Pelosi refutes Maher’s suggestion she took responsibility for Jan. 6 in resurfaced video​

by Tara Suter - 08/31/24 11:51 AM ET


Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D) pushed back on a suggestion by comedian Bill Maher that her comments in recently surfaced footage that she took “responsibility” for security during the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.
“There’s some footage of you that just came out where you’re talking about — you say, I’m quoting you, ‘I take responsibility,’” Maher said Friday on “Real Time with Bill Maher,” while interviewing Pelosi.

 

[Heyo]

What I've noticed in these past years is that a lot of people seem to state opinions, then call them "facts" and expect everyone else to accept them as facts (lest they be branded as "delusional," which is also just an opinion, not a fact).

Depending on the side they are either facts or "alternative facts".

 

[soulsurvivor]

US Capitol rioters await Trump pardons

DONALD Trump supporters who were charged with storming the US Capitol are now expecting pardons from the incoming American president, who has lauded them as “patriots” and “political prisoners.” Read more at The Business Times.

www.businesstimes.com.sg

Trump has said he would pardon them, so now they're all lining up and ready for their pardons.

They can wait forever. It is not going to happen.

 

[SkepticThinker]

MAGA's very nom-de-plum "make America great again," puts great emphasis on the "again." When does the "again" refer to? It refers to our Founding, our foundation, our Founding Fathers: our Constitution. The whole point of "conservatism" is to conserve what sprouts out of the foundation. To keep America great, and or, to return her to greatness whenever forces attempt to create a different nation by disrespecting the founding Fathers, documents, and religio-cultural norms and standards.

The modern Democrat Party fosters an unabashed desire and attempt to change the nature of the Nation to something that has never existed before. The desires of the Democratic Party are good, very good. And that's where their energy and votes come from. They desire a more inclusive nation. They desire a nation unified with all other nations, almost to the point of being contra nationalism altogether. They don't want any sexual proclivity to be reckoned better, more moral, more healthy to the nation, than any other. They want all racial equities eliminated.

Where the rubber meets the road is the fact that conservatism, and MAGA, believe that our Founding Father's were wise enough, enlightened enough, to know that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Much that the Democrats seek, Republicans desire just as much, but with the belief that many good intentions, political, or otherwise, lead not to what is desired, but to its complete opposite.



John

So, hang on here. You suggested that Michelle Obama is anti-American by stating that she's finally proud of her country, but when it comes to a movement that claims by it's name that America is not great and needs to be great again, you're a-ok with that and you find that to be patriotic? Isn't this a double standard?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sometimes the democratic institutions are in on the election interference to such a degree that they have no reason to allow the quality evidence that would undermine their plot. Sometimes, after denying even a fair hearing on the matter, they even turn the justice system loose on the person attempting to argue that there was election interference.



Yes it did. And he played his allotted role in the history of that day even as President Trump will play his in current history. Time will tell if those comparing President Trump to Hitler are prescient or merely demagogues?



John

There was no election interference in 2020. There is no evidence at all.
Stop pushing Trump's dangerous lies.

 

[SkepticThinker]

At a Trump rally, Elon Musk pointed out that our Founding Father's gave us the First Amendment so that we could talk back to liars in the media and or the government. He then noted that in their wisdom, our Founding Father's realized that the only way to guarantee that government and their media lackeys don't take away the freedoms related to the First Amendment, is to give us the Second Amendment.

Though it might bristle against leftist and liberal sensibilities, our Founding Father's encouraged us to take arms against any government, to include our own, that tries to steal our freedom to elect whom we, not they, think should be elected. In 2020, the media, and a large swath of the population thought Joe Biden should win the election at all cost, and under any circumstance, such that even though the majority of voters voted for President Trump Biden was made to win.

During the recent election night, a Democratic governor in Wisconsin told his fellow Democrats to chill out. He said Trump would appear to be winning until the lights went out, but that in the middle of the night Harris votes would materialize such that he guaranteed she'd win. In other words 2020 all over again.

Unfortunately (for the Democrats), a Republican noticed the locks on the voting machines in Wisconsin hadn't been sealed causing a grip of ballots to be recounted after the locks were properly secured. A Republican senator pointed out that a Democratic group in charge of the machines had one simple mandate, secure the machines. The machines weren't secured.

Republicans spent, with Musk's personal care, millions and millions of dollars to ensure that nothing like 2020 took place in this election. Guess what, with voting machines sealed and secured, with legal challenges to questionable practices mounted throughout the union, Trump secured an amount of votes similar to what he secured in 2020, while the Democrats suddenly, mysteriously, lost about 10 million votes. A picture is worth a thousand words:

View attachment 99757

The Democratic slice of the pie has been nearly identical for the last four elections except for that miraculous ten million or so ballots that showed up in the middle of the night, and over the next week, all of which, ironically, were for Joe Biden. In Wisconsin, in 2020, CNN's vote total for Joe Biden suddenly jumped up by a few million or so votes with not a single one of the votes being cast for Donald Trump. When Fox news viewers saw it and pointed it out, Jake Tapper said (and I was watching live), that it was just a glitch in the system. There were lots of glitches in the 2020 election. Similar things happened in Pennsylvania and elsewhere. Large batches of votes were dropped of that had not a single vote for Donald Trump and many of which had no signature but were counted anyway since Democrats were running the machinery for the election that guaranteed a Biden victory.



John

Such nonsense.

Do you know who actually breached voting machines during the 2020 election?
Trump's minions.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/13/politics/coffee-county-georgia-voting-system-breach-trump/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-breaches/

Trump allies face potential charges in Georgia over voting machine breaches

Exclusive: Fulton county DA has evidence to charge Trump allies with computer trespass, two people briefed on the matter say

www.theguardian.com

The Trump Effort to Infiltrate Voting Systems Was Worse Than We Knew

Plaintiffs presented substantial evidence showing that anyone paying attention would have noticed something was quite amiss in Coffee County.

slate.com