Usa #1?

[Sunstone]

Our standard of living and quality of life are decreasing and already below those of most of the rest of the developed nations, our economy's shaky, our middle class's disappearing, our infrastructure's decaying, our manufacturing/industrial base has moved overseas, our media are propagandist entertaiment, our privacy, freedom, social services and civil rights are in rapid decline; our government's controlled by corporate interests and practically owned by China.
We're expending our national treasure desperately trying to hold onto our empire while domestically we're becoming a 3rd world police state.

Yes. Yes. But it is entirely subjective how you measure quality of life [/sarcasm]

 

[Kathryn]

I am a US citizen and native (native coon arse that is!) and I have lived and traveled in many different parts of the world (lived in Japan for three years and Germany for three years, and traveled quite a bit).

I have a lot of respect for what is good and healthy in other cultures, as well as in US culture.

That being said, in spite of our flaws, I prefer living in the US. Overall, I think our country offers the most opportunity for success within a healthy infrastructure.

Of course, what people DO with that opportunity is up to them. One of the flip sides of freedom is you're also allowed the freedom to fail or to live an unhealthy lifestyle.

The US is far from perfect, but no place on earth is perfect.

If I had to live in another country, I would make the best of it, and probably still be a very happy, fulfilled person, because that's my general outlook on life.

But I am very grateful to be a US citizen and to live in the fine state of Texas.

 

[sandandfoam]

I think the US is the #1 sham state.
Blather ad infinitum about the first amendment on the one hand. Wikileaks and the pursuit of Assange on the other.
Illegal wars against crazy dictators put in by themselves. Spreading democracy and propping up the Saudi Royal family. Arming the Taliban then demonizing them. Personal violation if one wishes to enter the country. Kidnapping and torture.

All in the name of democracy and freedom.

A huge sham. #1 in fact.

 

[waitasec]

Just curious about something that is sometimes portrayed by the media...

1. Do most Americans think that USA is the best country in the world?

2. Is there any rational thought behind this claim by those who make it?

i always thought it was an odd idea myself. especially after befriending many, many foreigners. one of whom i married. i used to get upset when they complained about how things worked here. i would simply reply, "if you don't like it then go back home" but then after being fortunate enough travel and see the world, i see where they were coming from.

the standard of living is set so low in america, which for me is strange. but this is the land of opportunity for those who dream big and that is the price we pay. the problem with that is not everybody's dream will be realized, i would guess 90% of those in the lower to upper classes believe they will be rich before retiring. it's the carrot that keeps the wealthy more wealthy by keeping the poor poorer.

 

[Father Heathen]

The idea of what America is supposed to embody and represent (rights, freedom, equality, justice, democracy, etc.) is "the best", but in reality it fails to live up to it.

Anyway, It's part of the culture for Americans to be brought up to take pride and patriotism in their country, sometimes to the point of jingoism. The irony is that those who loudly proclaim to be staunch patriots are usually the first to wipe their *** with the values and virtues this nation was founded upon, and often support the very things that prevent it from being "#1".

 

[linwood]

The idea of what America is supposed to embody and represent (rights, freedom, equality, justice, democracy, etc.) is "the best", but in reality it fails to live up to it.

Anyway, It's part of the culture for Americans to be brought up take pride and patriotism in their country, sometimes to be the point of jingoism. The irony is that those who loudly proclaim to be staunch patriots are usually the first to wipe their *** with the values and virtues this nation was founded upon, and often support the very things that prevent it from being "#1".

So very true.

 

[jarofthoughts]

The idea of what America is supposed to embody and represent (rights, freedom, equality, justice, democracy, etc.) is "the best", but in reality it fails to live up to it.

I fully agree with this. Opposed as I am to many of the things done in and by America, I actually think that, in a way, we need this, the most massive experiment in human history to succeed. If we, that is humans, can build a society that adheres to and lives according to those values, a society that is open to anyone of any race or creed, and make it work, then maybe we have a chance to overcome these petty tribal tendencies we appear to fall back on.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I truly hope America can and will succeed.

Thus far though we still have a long way to go.

Anyway, It's part of the culture for Americans to be brought up to take pride and patriotism in their country, sometimes to the point of jingoism. The irony is that those who loudly proclaim to be staunch patriots are usually the first to wipe their *** with the values and virtues this nation was founded upon, and often support the very things that prevent it from being "#1".

Patriotism can, if taken too far, be just a dangerous as any fundamentalist ideology. Dogmatism is the way to failure always and everywhere.

 

[Kathryn]

I guess this is the "I Hate the USA" thread - and I feel very out of place here.

 

[Father Heathen]

I guess this is the "I Hate the USA" thread - and I feel very out of place here.

Spare me the pretentious theatrics. Where on this thread has anyone expressed anything that could be described as hatred? I do love my country, which is exactly why I criticize it's flaws rather than gloss them over; because I want better for it. If I am to call it "the best" it actually needs to be the best. There are other countries in the west that are surpassing us in civil liberties, human rights, social justice/equality, education level, standard of living, etc. If people truly loved America they would want it to catch up rather than try to hold it back. And how can you say you love America when you've openly supported political views that are contrary to the American values of rights, liberty and equality?

 

[waitasec]

I guess this is the "I Hate the USA" thread - and I feel very out of place here.

love hurts.
when you love someone do point out the shortcomings
or do you kiss their a**?

 

[Kathryn]

quote]

Spare me the pretentious theatrics

Spare me the histrionic rhetoric.

There are other countries in the west that are surpassing us in civil liberties, human rights, social justice/equality, education level, standard of living, etc

Most western countries that are lifted up as examples of this do not have the size, population, diversity, and the accompanying challenges that the US has. Not even close.

And how can you say you love America when you've openly supported political views that are contrary to the American values of rights, liberty and equality?[/

Sorry, but I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Father Heathen]

But anyway, where's that hate at?

 

[Sunstone]

I guess this is the "I Hate the USA" thread - and I feel very out of place here.

Did they teach you that you can't both love something and criticize it too? Or did you come up with that one yourself?

 

[Magic Man]

I guess this is the "I Hate the USA" thread - and I feel very out of place here.

Yeah, that's what it is. You're right, though, that you're out of place. This thread is for honest, informed views about America, not empty, ignorant patriotism, so that leaves you out.

 

[Kathryn]

I've just been accused of "pretentious theatrics" by calling this threat the "I Hate the USA" thread. I was challenged to show how I could possibly think this, based on the content of the thread.

Here are statements that led me to such "pretentious theatrics:"

Often (but to be fair, not always) in discussions with Americans they seem to claim that their country is the best in the world, and when pressed for why that is they are often either misinformed or they resort to responses like "because it is", which, I'm sure you agree, not much of a rationale.

The USA is

The best at being corrupt...best at lying.....best at spin.

I must say that from where I am standing US elections look like a circus and it appears as if only the rich (or those who through other means have access to vast resources) are the only ones who have a shot at making it, and to be honest what the US media channels call a debate is a joke.

But hey, we got the most expensive military! And we got the best football players, because we KNOW that football is NOT futbol! Better yet, we got more guns than anybody! Guns, biceps, and more guns, we got 'em so we're the BEST!

Americans are ignorant. Most get all their news and their world-view from TV network "news." They know little about life beyond their individual regions. They're told the USA is the best, and they accept it unquestioningly

Actually they're just too ignorant to know that the overall quality of life here is worse than many other countries.

But where would be without our guns and bombs? We need someone to kill, dammit!

[QUOTEI'm down with that! So long as they are red, yellow, brown or black people. Or speak a different language. Standards are important to me.][/QUOTE]

That "can do" American spirit will have us passing Somalia in no time!!

[QUOTEOur standard of living and quality of life are decreasing and already below those of most of the rest of the developed nations, our economy's shaky, our middle class's disappearing, our infrastructure's decaying, our manufacturing/industrial base has moved overseas, our media are propagandist entertaiment, our privacy, freedom, social services and civil rights are in rapid decline; our government's controlled by corporate interests and practically owned by China.
We're expending our national treasure desperately trying to hold onto our empire while domestically we're becoming a 3rd world police state.][/QUOTE]

I think the US is the #1 sham state.
Blather ad infinitum about the first amendment on the one hand. Wikileaks and the pursuit of Assange on the other.
Illegal wars against crazy dictators put in by themselves. Spreading democracy and propping up the Saudi Royal family. Arming the Taliban then demonizing them. Personal violation if one wishes to enter the country. Kidnapping and torture.

All in the name of democracy and freedom.

A huge sham. #1 in fact.

The irony is that those who loudly proclaim to be staunch patriots are usually the first to wipe their *** with the values and virtues this nation was founded upon, and often support the very things that prevent it from being "#1".

And those, my friends, are some good examples of pretentious theatrics and histrionic rhetoric.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I've just been accused of "pretentious theatrics" by calling this threat the "I Hate the USA" thread. I was challenged to show how I could possibly think this, based on the content of the thread.

Here are statements that led me to such "pretentious theatrics:"

<snipped>

And those, my friends, are some good examples of pretentious theatrics and histrionic rhetoric.

Several of the comments you quoted were obviously intended to be ironic and not to be taken as the posters' actual opinions.
As for the two quotes from my posts I thought I made it clear that those were my personal impressions, not to be taken as universal facts.
Many of the more serious posts in this tread has indeed proven that there are many Americans who are aware of the shortcomings of the US in certain areas. I also believe that my personal stance on the matter should be clear as I've expressed it above in that while I have several reservations about what America is right now, I do love the idea that America was founded on. As I am not an American myself it is not my place to tell anyone how they should conduct their affairs (insofar as they do not unduly affect my own) but I would like to see the idea of America become reality.

Hope that clears matters up somewhat.

 

[Kathryn]

You really think that those quotes were out of context and intended to be ironic? I don't think so - I re-read the entire thread (a true exercise in fortitude) and the quotes I used were pretty much from the angle of the posters of each quote.

As I said in my first post on this thread, I don't think the USA is perfect - far from it. And we've got room for improvement - as does any country.

Waitasec and Father Heathen - what do you love about the USA? What areas do you think the USA excels in?

Sunstone, what about you? Do you think the USA has any redeeming qualities?

If you're from the US, how many years of your life have you LIVED in other countries?

If you're not from the US, how many years of your life have you LIVED in the US?

See - visiting somewhere and LIVING somewhere are different. A few days in another country can give you a glimpse into other lifestyles, but living there for months or years is a whole other matter.

I've lived in other countries, and traveled extensively throughout the world. My husband has lived for months at a time in Africa, the Middle East, Southeast Asia, China, the Scandinavian countries, the UK, etc. and I have learned a lot from his experiences in those places as well as my own life experiences in other countries.

I've experienced some things in other countries that I truly appreciate, and wish we had more of here in the US.

But overall, in spite of our flaws, I love the United States - and not because I am blinded by "empty, ignorant patriotism" or stupidity or naievete. Sorry, but you can't live the life I've led and be either naieve, uninformed, or full of empty patriotism.

My love for my country is rooted in gratitude and appreciation. I guess I'm just a positive sort of person.

It's impossible to say that ANY country is "#1" overall. In fact, that's sort of a ridiculous position to try to claim.

But as a US citizen, I'm glad to claim the United States as my home, and I am proud to be an American. I'd hope that everyone could say the same about their own country and citizenship.

If not, move here - there's plenty of opportunity for anyone who's willing to work hard and honestly.

 

[Father Heathen]

So how exactly does making observations equate hatred? And most seem to be directed at government conduct and the ignorance and apathy which is undeniably prevalent in our society, unfortunately. Those things deserve scrutiny, but how are they an expression of hatred toward America itself?

 

[Kathryn]

I already answered your question - now answer mine, Father Heathen. What do you admire and appreciate about the United States?

 

[Sunstone]

Kathryn, you seem unable to distinguish between loathing the excesses of our government and hating our country. Have you ever asked yourself why you think the government is the country?