USA: Supporting Gov. Backed College Loans is Supporting Corruption

[Brickjectivity]

USA: supporting government backed college loans equals supporting corruption.

After the US government began to back college loans the prices began to rapidly rise. Adjusted for inflation its 10 or 100 times as expensive to pay off as it ought to be, as it naturally would be before the government backed loans, yet teenagers are urged to attend university. They are urged to go into debt despite already having High School diplomas. With such bad guidance and the temptation to live on borrowed money its worse than a subprime mortgage scheme.

Meanwhile public high schools are urged to churn out students that are useless without college.

Universities have a low threshhold for who they allow in. Anybody can get in, get into debt and fail to learn anything useful. They can wrack up 300,000 in debt partying on government money, living in rented apartments and buying things using student loans. This is corruption. This is indentured servitude. This is not Ok. This has ruined many lives and will continue to do so.

 

[joe1776]

After healthcare, the financial services industry involves the most fraud in the USA. Far too many citizens are math illiterate suckers and need government protection which is weak in our economic system.

 

[Stevicus]

USA: supporting government backed college loans equals supporting corruption.

After the US government began to back college loans the prices began to rapidly rise. Adjusted for inflation its 10 or 100 times as expensive to pay off as it ought to be, as it naturally would be before the government backed loans, yet teenagers are urged to attend university. They are urged to go into debt despite already having High School diplomas. With such bad guidance and the temptation to live on borrowed money its worse than a subprime mortgage scheme.

Meanwhile public high schools are urged to churn out students that are useless without college.

Universities have a low threshhold for who they allow in. Anybody can get in, get into debt and fail to learn anything useful. They can wrack up 300,000 in debt partying on government money, living in rented apartments and buying things using student loans. This is corruption. This is indentured servitude. This is not Ok. This has ruined many lives and will continue to do so.

You make some good points. The best solution is to make higher education free to all who qualify. But I think universities should confine themselves to purely scholarly and academic pursuits. They seem to have become "job training services" by default, which benefits employers, who in turn don't have to train their employees.

I recall a discussion about labor shortages in the tech field, and there were complaints from tech companies that there aren't enough people who are trained to be able to take many of the jobs that are offered. The idea of actually hiring people and training them on the job seemed totally alien to them. It seems that they've grown dependent upon public education to train their employees, which has turned into another taxpayer-supported subsidy designed to benefit capitalists.

Another thought I had about this is that more and more people are getting college degrees then before, as illustrated here: • Americans with a college degree 1940-2018, by gender | Statista

So, why does it seem as if America is getting dumber and dumber, even despite a significantly larger number of educated people?

 

[Audie]

You make some good points. The best solution is to make higher education free to all who qualify. But I think universities should confine themselves to purely scholarly and academic pursuits. They seem to have become "job training services" by default, which benefits employers, who in turn don't have to train their employees.

I recall a discussion about labor shortages in the tech field, and there were complaints from tech companies that there aren't enough people who are trained to be able to take many of the jobs that are offered. The idea of actually hiring people and training them on the job seemed totally alien to them. It seems that they've grown dependent upon public education to train their employees, which has turned into another taxpayer-supported subsidy designed to benefit capitalists.

Another thought I had about this is that more and more people are getting college degrees then before, as illustrated here: • Americans with a college degree 1940-2018, by gender | Statista

View attachment 47287


So, why does it seem as if America is getting dumber and dumber, even despite a significantly larger number of educated people?

Making it free is not " best".
It only transfers part of the problem
to others to pay

As for 'job training", if only!

As an undergrad at a good American university,
not some state school, I still saw so many
students who were just there coz mommy and daddy said they should be and their immature
brains didn't get it that they will have to pay
some day. Unrealistic career goals, if any at all.

I can see giving a free education to a poor
student who applies, as for a grant, with a
track record and a solid plan.

 

[metis]

Of the 20 most industrialized countries, the U.S. is the only one that spends less money on kids from lower-income families than middle and upper-income families. And then the Pubs whine about what this tends to lead to, namely fewer qualified employees, higher unemployment rates, higher crime rates, etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

Making it free is not " best".
It only transfers part of the problem
to others to pay

As for 'job training", if only!

As an undergrad at a good American university,
not some state school, I still saw so many
students who were just there coz mommy and daddy said they should be and their immature
brains didn't get it that they will have to pay
some day. Unrealistic career goals, if any at all.

I can see giving a free education to a poor
student who applies, as for a grant, with a
track record and a solid plan.

I once had an employee who was on the verge of finishing
his bachelor's degree in sociology. He didn't really want
it, but his family wanted him to be degreed. I argued that
there's no cache in that degree, it wouldn't make him any
money, & he'd have to take courses he didn't want.
He dropped out.
Best decision he ever made. He owns his own successful
construction company now. And no one says to him...
"You have a degree in what? <snicker>"

What did he really need? A grade school education that
taught practical skills, eg, carpentry, accounting, business
law, auto mechanics, applied math.

 

[Audie]

I once had an employee who was on the verge of finishing
his bachelor's degree in sociology. He didn't really want
it, but his family wanted him to be degreed. I argued that
there's no cache in that degree, it wouldn't make him any
money, & he'd have to take courses he didn't want.
He dropped out.
Best decision he ever made. He owns his own successful
construction company now. And no one says to him...
"You have a degree in what? <snicker>"

What did he really need? A grade school education that
taught practical skills, eg, carpentry, accounting, business
law, auto mechanics, applied math.

A education degree also tends to get
a laugh or sneer anywhere outside of
the ed establishment.

I knew this girl who actually thought
her poly sci degree would get her a
job as a policy maker in. DC!

She got a data entry job somewhere, in
her home town. Four years behind,
No plan, multiple k in debt, and hadn't
learned a thing worth knowing at uni.

Forgive her debt, give it free from day one?
Crazy!

 

[Revoltingest]

A education degree also tends to get
a laugh or sneer anywhere outside of
the ed establishment.

I knew this girl who actually thought
her poly sci degree would get her a
job as a policy maker in. DC!

She got a data entry job somewhere, in
her home town. Four years behind,
No plan, multiple k in debt, and hadn't
learned a thing worth knowing at uni.

Forgive her debt, give it free from day one?
Crazy!

Education degrees are for a trade, so I approve.

Daughter did well in tech courses, but was more
interested in sociology, so she got a degree in
that. While the material is of questionable use,
she learned research & writing. That was a very
marketable skill.
Degrees are door openers at many companies.
But more important than the degree itself, is
learning something useful.

 

[sun rise]

USA: supporting government backed college loans equals supporting corruption.

After the US government began to back college loans the prices began to rapidly rise. Adjusted for inflation its 10 or 100 times as expensive to pay off as it ought to be, as it naturally would be before the government backed loans, yet teenagers are urged to attend university. They are urged to go into debt despite already having High School diplomas. With such bad guidance and the temptation to live on borrowed money its worse than a subprime mortgage scheme.

Meanwhile public high schools are urged to churn out students that are useless without college.

Universities have a low threshhold for who they allow in. Anybody can get in, get into debt and fail to learn anything useful. They can wrack up 300,000 in debt partying on government money, living in rented apartments and buying things using student loans. This is corruption. This is indentured servitude. This is not Ok. This has ruined many lives and will continue to do so.

No cite to reputable source(s) means I dismiss the OP out of hand.

 

[Audie]

No cite to reputable source(s) means I dismiss the OP out of hand.

British naval history

A common sailor who knew the local
waters tried to warn his captain that
there was a reef.

He was flogged, the fleet was lost.

 

[Nakosis]

USA: supporting government backed college loans equals supporting corruption.

After the US government began to back college loans the prices began to rapidly rise. Adjusted for inflation its 10 or 100 times as expensive to pay off as it ought to be, as it naturally would be before the government backed loans, yet teenagers are urged to attend university. They are urged to go into debt despite already having High School diplomas. With such bad guidance and the temptation to live on borrowed money its worse than a subprime mortgage scheme.

Meanwhile public high schools are urged to churn out students that are useless without college.

Universities have a low threshhold for who they allow in. Anybody can get in, get into debt and fail to learn anything useful. They can wrack up 300,000 in debt partying on government money, living in rented apartments and buying things using student loans. This is corruption. This is indentured servitude. This is not Ok. This has ruined many lives and will continue to do so.

So these are federal student loans funded by taxpayer dollars. The interest is a hidden tax basically. As the government spends more and more money they have to find more ways to pay that debt. While Trump temporarily suspended interest accumulation on student debt that debt is still the government's debt. The federal government has an obligation to pay its debt to the federal banks. The money has to come from somewhere.

I assume the answer would be to tax the rich... Make the rich pay for the education of America's youth.

 

[Audie]

So these are federal student loans funded by taxpayer dollars. The interest is a hidden tax basically. As the government spends more and more money they have to find more ways to pay that debt. While Trump temporarily suspended interest accumulation on student debt that debt is still the government's debt. The federal government has an obligation to pay its debt to the federal banks. The money has to come from somewhere.

I assume the answer would be to tax the rich... Make the rich pay for the education of America's youth.

Marvy how " tax the rich " would solve
every prob.

 

[Nakosis]

So these are federal student loans funded by taxpayer dollars. The interest is a hidden tax basically. As the government spends more and more money they have to find more ways to pay that debt. While Trump temporarily suspended interest accumulation on student debt that debt is still the government's debt. The federal government has an obligation to pay its debt to the federal banks. The money has to come from somewhere.

I assume the answer would be to tax the rich... Make the rich pay for the education of America's youth.

Why taxing the wealthy may be a bad idea.

When you tax something/add fees to ownership its value goes down. If you look into buying property, like I've been doing lately, properties with HOA have much lower asking prices. The value of owning that house is much lower because of the associated fees.

The same with business. The more you tax a business, the less value owning the business and its associated assets have. If you tax it too much, folks will find other places to put their money. They will close the business, workers will lose their jobs. Unemployment will rise.

The rich look for ways to earn wealth from their money. If the government interferes with that too much, they will go elsewhere. The government loses not only whatever tax it is getting from the business but also loses the tax from income from the workers.

It has to be balanced. So while politicians will promise to get the wealthy to pay for everything, there is only so much they can actually do without completely destroying the economy.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Why taxing the wealthy may be a bad idea.

When you tax something/add fees to ownership its value goes down. If you look into buying property, like I've been doing lately, properties with HOA have much lower asking prices. The value of owning that house is much lower because of the associated fees.

The same with business. The more you tax a business, the less value owning the business and its associated assets have. If you tax it too much, folks will find other places to put their money. They will close the business, workers will lose their jobs. Unemployment will rise.

The rich look for ways to earn wealth from their money. If the government interferes with that too much, they will go elsewhere. The government loses not only whatever tax it is getting from the business but also loses the tax from income from the workers.

It has to be balanced. So while politicians will promise to get the wealthy to pay for everything, there is only so much they can actually do without completely destroying the economy.

I'd love to see them try to make the same money in other countries, the majority of which restrict abilities for CEO to accrue wealth without paying back into the community a lot more than the US.
The US is the capitalist ****hole they love. Where else are they going to go?

"Let me wealth hoard with no reasonable restrictions or I'll take my illicit gains elsewhere" is the lamest hostage negotiation.

 

[Nakosis]

Marvy how " tax the rich " would solve
every prob.

It is IMO an empty promise by politicians to get elected. If they don't know how destructive this can be when they get into office they'll soon learn. Sure, they'll still pay the idea lipservice, and maybe even "increase taxes on the rich" while on the other hand provide loophole/tax incentives so the value of ownership remains. Hopefully, no one gets it in their head to follow through and actually destroy the economy.

 

[Nakosis]

I'd love to see them try to make the same money in other countries, the majority of which restrict abilities for CEO to accrue wealth without paying back into the community a lot more than the US.
The US is the capitalist ****hole they love. Where else are they going to go?

There's no need to go to other countries, though it a possibility. There are other ways to make your money work for you than owning a business.

Besides, politicians aren't really going to destroy the economy by doing this, despite whatever they promise in their campaigns.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

There's no need to go to other countries, though it a possibility. There are other ways to make your money work for you than owning a business.

Besides, politicians aren't really going to destroy the economy by doing this, despite whatever they promise in their campaigns.

Most countries which aren't ****holes manage to still have socialized higher education.

I agree that trying to fix student loans is sticking a band-aid on a stuck pig. The ultimate problem is tuition costs. But that doesn't change that people right now are suffering ridiculous, life sinking loan costs they signed into as minors while clueless old people go 'back in my day I could work a night job and pay off my tuition loan before end of semester! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps sonny!'

Meanwhile, younger people are catching on that the right (which I include mainline lib democrats) aren't going to do anything, and as a result our population of higher educated individuals is rapidly shrinking as nobody is willing to enter the racket. An economy buster if ever there was one.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd love to see them try to make the same money in other countries, the majority of which restrict abilities for CEO to accrue wealth without paying back into the community a lot more than the US.
The US is the capitalist ****hole they love. Where else are they going to go?

"Let me wealth hoard with no reasonable restrictions or I'll take my illicit gains elsewhere" is the lamest hostage negotiation.

It reminds me of all those smokers who say they'll quit with the next price hike. But they don't. And then they'll quit once the price is whatever a pack. But even on the next price hike after that they still haven't quit.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Meanwhile, people are catching on that the right (which I include mainline lib democrats) aren't going to do anything, and as a result our population of higher educated individuals is rapidly shrinking. An economy buster if ever there was one.

We could do with more apprenticeships. Lots of things and programs that put people through college really don't need much, if any, college education. Like auto mechanics. There would be a need for class instruction on safety procedures and such, but for the most part it just is not learned in a class but learned by doing. You'll need to do some math for carpentry, but it's mostly learned on the job.

 

[Audie]

Most countries which aren't ****holes manage to still have socialized higher education.

I agree that trying to fix student loans is sticking a band-aid on a stuck pig. The ultimate problem is tuition costs. But that doesn't change that people right now are suffering ridiculous, life sinking loan costs they signed into as minors while clueless old people go 'back in my day I could work a night job and pay off my tuition loan before end of semester! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps sonny!'

Meanwhile, younger people are catching on that the right (which I include mainline lib democrats) aren't going to do anything, and as a result our population of higher educated individuals is rapidly shrinking as nobody is willing to enter the racket. An economy buster if ever there was one.

Why is education so expensive