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USA: Supporting Gov. Backed College Loans is Supporting Corruption

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So these are federal student loans funded by taxpayer dollars. The interest is a hidden tax basically. As the government spends more and more money they have to find more ways to pay that debt. While Trump temporarily suspended interest accumulation on student debt that debt is still the government's debt. The federal government has an obligation to pay its debt to the federal banks. The money has to come from somewhere.

I assume the answer would be to tax the rich... Make the rich pay for the education of America's youth.
Its currently the students that are required to pay. Some do pay it off, but a lot don't. The interest is partly covered by government through taxes, yes; but its not forgiven. Not usually. The cost...the amount is the problem, the removal of price as a limit on how much the price is. There is no sign this will ever, ever stop; and the universities are running on the assumption they can keep growing and keep raising prices. They buy land. They build buildings which they rent out. They make golf courses. Its crazy.

No cite to reputable source(s) means I dismiss the OP out of hand.
That's reasonable. Here are some relatively unbiased resources. There are probably others. I think its a good argument.

Many online sources tend to be from a politically influenced group such as from a particular newspaper or think tank, so I have tried to avoid that but came up with only one. It looks decent. Best colleges online (probably unbiased politically) says average tuition in 1973 at a state university and adjusted for modern inflation was 2,175$. That's one semester.
A Timeline of College Tuition - BestCollegesOnline.com

This resource says colleges like to charge high tuition, so that they can give discounts to particular students that they especially desire: The Real Reasons Why College Tuition is So High and What you Can Do About it - The Scholarship System

Most online sources compare modern prices to 1987 or 1980, not 1960 or when the government backing was instituted.
Forbes talks about prices since 1980 Mind-boggling Increase in Tuition Since 1960 Even as Students Learn Less and Less - Competitive Enterprise Institute

1/3 of US adults have student loan debts according to Pew. Its strong evidence that government backed loans have driven prices out of reach and are a racket.
5 facts about student loans

The amount students borrow per semester tends to double every ten years
The Changing Profile of Student Borrowers
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Most countries which aren't ****holes manage to still have socialized higher education.

I agree that trying to fix student loans is sticking a band-aid on a stuck pig. The ultimate problem is tuition costs. But that doesn't change that people right now are suffering ridiculous, life sinking loan costs they signed into as minors while clueless old people go 'back in my day I could work a night job and pay off my tuition loan before end of semester! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps sonny!'

Meanwhile, younger people are catching on that the right (which I include mainline lib democrats) aren't going to do anything, and as a result our population of higher educated individuals is rapidly shrinking as nobody is willing to enter the racket. An economy buster if ever there was one.

Ok, yes tuition costs. IMO, this is all my opinion. This is really me trying to understand the issue.

So what happens, like with health insurance, A big pool of money is created, like single-payer, or government-backed student loans. A main goal of any business is to increase revenue. So they see this big pool of money sitting there, they are going to do everything they can to find a way to grab a bigger piece of that pool. So the more funding, the bigger the pool, the more these companies are going to grab.

Colleges raise the tuition, government makes the money available. Parents/kids want the education so are willing to go into debt because the government funding allows them to. Everyone is doing the "right" thing from their perspective.

Yeah, I used to believe in the Republican party, got disillusioned. Nice you still have faith in the Democratic party. Hope you won't find yourself disillusioned someday too.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Its currently the students that are required to pay. Some do pay it off, but a lot don't. The interest is partly covered by government through taxes, yes; but its not forgiven. Not usually. The cost...the amount is the problem, the removal of price as a limit on how much the price is. There is no sign this will ever, ever stop; and the universities are running on the assumption they can keep growing and keep raising prices. They buy land. They build buildings which they rent out. They make golf courses. Its crazy.

I don't really have an answer to fix this too many interests involved. Maybe other sources of education.
I've taken some online courses which were very hard but IMO good and taught me a lot and the cost was reasonable.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't really have an answer to fix this too many interests involved. Maybe other sources of education.
I've taken some online courses which were very hard but IMO good and taught me a lot and the cost was reasonable.
Yes, you can get online degrees and certifications. Still, there are some things that a college is good for. It can provide things that you can't learn online, but the cost has to go back down. It must be cut.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Yes, you can get online degrees and certifications. Still, there are some things that a college is good for. It can provide things that you can't learn online, but the cost has to go back down. It must be cut.

The outlandish cost of textbooks for one.
Hundreds of dollars! They could be printed on
newspaper.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The outlandish cost of textbooks for one.
Hundreds of dollars! They could be printed on
newspaper.
No student and no professor ever has to scrub a toilet (apart maybe from their own but often not even that). All of the menial work is done by temps and contractors who are treated like 2nd class citizens and invisible people. This is supposed to teach American students not to be racist, not to believe in classes, not to mistreat people other than themselves. At the same time perks like these are driving students into debt.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Why is education so expensive
Why is everything just about more expensive here than other countries yet producing inferior results?
Such as with healthcare, the emphasis switched from caring for people and helping them stay healthy to pushing pills and making money.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There is correlation here but causation is not proven at least to me.

We'd need to know where tuition is going - more than some of it being used for fund scholarships for starters.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Yes, you can get online degrees and certifications. Still, there are some things that a college is good for. It can provide things that you can't learn online, but the cost has to go back down. It must be cut.

Good luck. College is or has become a business. Lots of vested interests in keeping revenues high.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The outlandish cost of textbooks for one.
Hundreds of dollars! They could be printed on
newspaper.
What's behind the soaring cost of college textbooks

Apparently, students could reduce their costs in textbooks but colleges are not providing the information in how to go about this.

Capitalism to work fairly requires an educated consumer. Public education doesn't seem to keen on providing educated consumers.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Good luck. College is or has become a business. Lots of vested interests in keeping revenues high.
Challenge accepted! Everything changes. Just ask textile workers, printers, lawyers, tool & die workers, etc. Things end all the time, so we can end things and start things.

The idea of free college is obtainable if we limit it and specify exactly what will be free. For example we can make the government pay for certification tests if they have a price cap, and we can have national and international tests that equal a bachelor's degree. Let this compete with the universities. See how they compete against free degrees.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Challenge accepted! Everything changes. Just ask textile workers, printers, lawyers, tool & die workers, etc. Things end all the time, so we can end things and start things.

The idea of free college is obtainable if we limit it and specify exactly what will be free. For example we can make the government pay for certification tests if they have a price cap, and we can have national and international tests that equal a bachelor's degree. Let this compete with the universities. See how they compete against free degrees.

I think in all of these cases, the consumer had to change their behavior.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I think in all of these cases, the consumer had to change their behavior.
The potential is already there, because a lot of people have never finished degrees and can't afford to go back to college. Right there you have a large pool of interested people. There are also a lot of people not in the USA who whose degrees are not recognized in the USA. They would be interested, too. Consumer behavior -- check!
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Making it free is not " best".
It only transfers part of the problem
to others to pay

According to the Arizona Constitution (and this may reflect other states, but not sure), Article XI, Section 6: "The university and all other state educational institutions shall be open to students of both sexes, and the instruction furnished shall be as nearly free as possible."

At this point, it's not free, although residents pay lower tuition than non-residents. However, some have been questioning why it isn't free if the Constitution says it's supposed to be as nearly free as possible. In any case, tuition alone does not cover all the costs to run the universities. They still need plenty of taxpayer money to operate.

That's why athletics often get a pass at universities, since college football and basketball are money-makers.

As for 'job training", if only!

That's the thing. People can get job training at a trade school. Why does anyone need to attend a university and take classes which have nothing to do with their choice of vocation? They could probably fast-track and streamline the coursework required to get a certification for some sort of job, but the original idea was education for its own sake.

Like, for example, art history, which people snicker at these days as a useless degree, but at one time, societies used to appreciate art and wanted at least some people to be educated in that field.

Or they might teach people to become creators, thinkers, theologians, philosophers...but not any specific "job skill" because that wasn't what they were originally set up to do. Back when universities were first established, only nobles and aristocrats were able to attend, and since their future was already set, they didn't need to actually learn anything useful.

As an undergrad at a good American university,
not some state school, I still saw so many
students who were just there coz mommy and daddy said they should be and their immature
brains didn't get it that they will have to pay
some day. Unrealistic career goals, if any at all.

It was useful back when fewer people attended college and fewer people had degrees. Heck, back in the day, there were a lot more high school dropouts than anything else. But if someone had a college degree, it indicated some level of breeding, gentility, culture, and well-roundedness. It would indicate someone who is eloquent, intelligent, literate, and able to accomplish something by getting a degree in the first place.

It served a purpose similar to what "finishing school" once was - even if the knowledge they had was completely useless. But if you're at some high-level executive cocktail party and the subject of Shakespeare comes up, you might end up looking like a complete fool if you don't know anything about Shakespeare.

But now that college degrees are a dime a dozen, they don't really carry the same level of mystique or clout that they once did. A bachelors degree now is equivalent to what a high school diploma was 50 years ago. Now, employers have come to expect advanced degrees and training.

Funny thing is, from what I've heard from people in a variety of professions, whatever they learned in college didn't really help them much when they actually entered the career world. I remember a lawyer saying that he learned how to be a lawyer in the first six months of actually doing that job. He said that what he learned in law school was interesting, but functionally useless when it came to the nuts and bolts of actually doing the job. It's the same with doctors, as they're not going to graduate from med school and then start doing open heart surgery the next day.

I can see giving a free education to a poor
student who applies, as for a grant, with a
track record and a solid plan.

Well, there are scholarships and aid programs based on need. Those are already in place.
 
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