USA tax granularity getting smaller in 2022

[Revoltingest]

Most companies do pay their taxes, but many of the largest and most profitable corporations and indivviduals do not. It's those that do not that I'm calling parasitic.

People claim that a lot. But never do they provide any
analysis of why. No profit that year? Carry forward losses?
Without analysis showing there's something dysfunctional,
it's not a valid claim....just superficial.

As for the poor, I like the old depression era CCC approach: if you're able bodied, grab a shovel and at the end of the day we'll hand you $150 (or whatever a decent wage would be for a good day's work.)

Make work programs can be useful.
But taxing wealth isn't necessary for that.

 

[icehorse]

People claim that a lot. But never do they provide any analysis of why

Good old loopholes not parsimonious enough for you?

55 Corporations Paid $0 in Federal Taxes on 2020 Profits

 

[Revoltingest]

Good old loopholes not parsimonious enough for you?

55 Corporations Paid $0 in Federal Taxes on 2020 Profits

Where's your analysis of a company doing something
that should be changed? I've had years where my
business had no tax liability for reasonable reasons.
And you dealt only with income taxes, not other taxes,
which could defeat your claim of parasitism.

 

[icehorse]

Where's your analysis of a company doing something
that should be changed? I've had years where my
business had no tax liability for reasonable reasons.
And you dealt only with income taxes, not other taxes,
which could defeat your claim of parasitism.

If you read the section after the table (in the article I linked to), you'll see a lot of the ways these companies were able to avoid taxes. As one example, they are able to write off research. Well I asked my accountant for years if we could write off research and he basically said "no, that's only for the huge companies".

 

[Revoltingest]

If you read the section after the table (in the article I linked to), you'll see a lot of the ways these companies were able to avoid taxes. As one example, they are able to write off research. Well I asked my accountant for years if we could write off research and he basically said "no, that's only for the huge companies".

Spending money on research shouldn't be a deductable
expense? That's absurd....at least for companies where
research is a real expenditure. What business are you
in such that research isn't deductable? I know that even
in my engineering & real estate businesses I can deduct it.
But I have a CPA firm doing my taxes...not just an accountant.

 

[icehorse]

Spending money on research shouldn't be a deductable expense? That's absurd....at least for companies where
research is a real expenditure. What business are you
in such that research isn't deductable? I know that even
in my engineering & real estate businesses I can deduct it.
But I have a CPA firm doing my taxes...not just an accountant.

Well, my accountant IS a CPA. I suppose I could double check. Our sole proprietorship creates cutting-edge learning systems.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, my accountant IS a CPA. I suppose I could double check. Our sole proprietorship creates cutting-edge learning systems.

So if you can deduct it, you'll use that "loophole"?
Ya know, there are other good loopholes too.
You can deduct things like rent, utilities, property
taxes, repairs, maintenance, supplies, postage,
groundskeeping, snow removal, depreciation, etc.
Better do it while you can. Liberals are talking
about eliminating "loopholes".

 

[Shaul]

Good old loopholes not parsimonious enough for you?

55 Corporations Paid $0 in Federal Taxes on 2020 Profits

I don’t believe the ITEP report in your citation is truthful. I think it is a fabrication of an ideological interest group that produced its “report” based on voodoo calculations and sleight of hand. I don’t give it any credence.

For example it says Nike paid no income taxes in 2020. It actually paid $348,000,000 in income taxes in 2020. Which was way down due to the COVID lock downs. Nike paid $934,000,000 in income taxes in 2021.

Here is a copy of Nike’s Consolidated Earnings Statement, https://s1.q4cdn.com/806093406/file...4-Combined-NIKE-Schedules-FINAL-(002)-(1).pdf

 

[icehorse]

So if you can deduct it, you'll use that "loophole"?

I'm not sure why you have such a hard-on for huge corporations that aren't paying their fair share, it's a puzzlement to me.

I (and I suspect it's true for you as well), singlehandedly paid more taxes in 2020 than all of these PROFITABLE corporations put together:

Dish Network, FedEx, Con Ed, GP, Nike, Penske, Salesforce, Xcel Energy, Xilinx and many others.

Any tax code that allows that is simply not ethical.

 

[icehorse]

I don’t believe the ITEP report in your citation is truthful. I think it is a fabrication of an ideological interest group that produced its “report” based on voodoo calculations and sleight of hand. I don’t give it any credence.

For example it says Nike paid no income taxes in 2020. It actually paid $348,000,000 in income taxes in 2020. Which was way down due to the COVID lock downs. Nike paid $934,000,000 in income taxes in 2021.

Here is a copy of Nike’s Consolidated Earnings Statement, https://s1.q4cdn.com/806093406/file...4-Combined-NIKE-Schedules-FINAL-(002)-(1).pdf

How much did they get back in things like subsidies?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not sure why you have such a hard-on for huge corporations that....

Sexual metaphors, eh.
I could respond with why you want to rape corporations.
But that would be rude. (I am a paragon on propriety.)

I'm not being pro-corporation here.
I'm pro-cogent analysis & good public policy. You've offered
a simplistic claim devoid of any real world detailed example.
Your argument reminds me of Cosmo Kramer's "write off"....

Liberal definitions.....
Tax deduction: A tax deduction I get.
Tax loophole: A tax deduction I don't get.

 

[icehorse]

I'm not being pro-corporation here.
I'm pro-cogent analysis & good public policy.

Me too.

Huge amounts of society's wealth is accumulating to a tiny group of people. Meanwhile the middle class is shrinking, our infrastructure is in shambles, our education system is a wreck, our environment is degrading, and I can go on and on.

How is this good public policy?

 

[Shaul]

How much did they get back in things like subsidies?

How much did they pay in personnel income taxes?

The thing is that all the income taxes due for employees are paid by their employers but credited to the employees. Simply put the supposed “evil” corporation’s you hate pay most of the income taxes. And there are no loopholes for the employer paid payroll income taxes.

But you never thought of it that way no doubt. Because you have some weird anti-business fixation.

 

[icehorse]

How much did they pay in personnel income taxes?

The thing is that all the income taxes due for employees are paid by their employers but credited to the employees. Simply put the supposed “evil” corporation’s you hate pay most of the income taxes. And there are no loopholes for the employer paid payroll income taxes.

But you never thought of it that way no doubt. Because you have some weird anti-business fixation.

Doh! Thank goodness you're here!

If you recall, I'm talking about PROFITABLE corporations and billionaires.

 

[Shaul]

Doh! Thank goodness you're here!

If you recall, I'm talking about PROFITABLE corporations and billionaires.

That doesn’t change the point of my post. All corporations, profitable or not, pay personnel income taxes.

 

[icehorse]

That doesn’t change the point of my post. All corporations, profitable or not, pay personnel income taxes.

I think I'd call that an expense(?), but in any case, it's separate from a company's income tax, right?

So let's take a look at Amazon. Bezos is worth what, $100 BILLION? Meanwhile many of his full time workers are paid peanuts under horrible working conditions. This approach is simply not sustainable. At some point, the Bezos's of the world won't have anyone to sell their stuff to. And it's already the case that Bezos's BILLIONS rely heavily on society's infrastructure. He's clearly not chipping in the way the rest of us are.

 

[Revoltingest]

Me too.

Where's the analysis behind carping about some
corporations not having income tax liability in
some years, eh.

Huge amounts of society's wealth is accumulating to a tiny group of people. Meanwhile the middle class is shrinking, our infrastructure is in shambles, our education system is a wreck, our environment is degrading, and I can go on and on.

How is this good public policy?

This is not analyzing tax consequences for a corporation.
Wanting tax money spent on useful things is a fine idea.
But it doesn't justify unsupported claims about taxation.

 

[icehorse]

This is not analyzing tax consequences for a corporation.
Wanting tax money spent on useful things is a fine idea.
But it doesn't justify unsupported claims about taxation.

I'm claiming that wealth accumulation and tax systems interact in the same system. We would not see such unethical wealth accumulation if the tax system was more ethical.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm claiming that wealth accumulation and tax systems interact in the same system. We would not see such unethical wealth accumulation if the tax system was more ethical.

Let me know when government contacts you to give
them advice on tax policy. I want to weigh in.

 

[icehorse]

Let me know when government contacts you to give
them advice on tax policy. I want to weigh in.

I believe that undoing the oligarchy we've allowed to manifest is a first order problem. Borrowing from Hitchens, "Oligarchs Poison Everything". Until we defang the oligarchs our society will continue its slide to third world status. Again, our infrastructure, healthcare, education, environment, happiness and so on are ALL being degraded (in unsustainable ways), by the Oligarchy.

This is a cause that 99.9999% of us should join together and fight and win. Most of the societal ills we'd like to correct are either intractable or nearly so, until we abolish the oligachy.

So you can sit back and take pot shots at me, does that make you feel all warm and fuzzy?