Uthman collection of Quran (or something else happened)

[stevecanuck]

From now on Steve, you should prove your interpretation CLEARLY through Quran or else, you interpretation are shown to bias seeking problems with Quran, when there is none.

Is this clear enough for you:

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Pickthall: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Shakir: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight against those People of the Book who have no faith in God or the Day of Judgment, who do not consider unlawful what God and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not believe in the true religion, until they humbly pay tax with their own hands.

Mohsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Arberry: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.

 

[Link]

Yeah it's clear in context when the Surah is saying to stay true to those who stayed true to you, that they too broke treaties. Nice try. Prove your interpretation. I can do the same:

"Woe to those who pray" [Qur'an, 107:4]

I guess Quran teaches not to pray! See everyone, God condemns us if we pray!

 

[stevecanuck]

Yeah it's clear in context when the Surah is saying to stay true to those who stayed true to you, that they too broke treaties. Nice try. Prove your interpretation. I can do the same:

"Woe to those who pray" [Qur'an, 107:4]

I guess Quran teaches not to pray! See everyone, God condemns us if we pray!

I gave you my analysis of the entirety of surah 9 as requested. I included all necessary context as well as the analysis of Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi. If that's not good enough for you, then I guess we're done.

 

[Link]

Okay. Good luck bro on making up stuff about Quran and keep ignoring it's contextual flow with respect to each other, it will prove everything I am sure, when you play such games.

 

[stevecanuck]

Okay. Good luck bro on making up stuff about Quran and keep ignoring it's contextual flow with respect to each other, it will prove everything I am sure, when you play such games.

I gave you so much analysis that I had to break it into 2 posts, and you didn't refer to anything specific that I got wrong.

That's because you can't.

 

[stevecanuck]

Okay. Good luck bro on making up stuff about Quran and keep ignoring it's contextual flow with respect to each other, it will prove everything I am sure, when you play such games.

Let's hear one example of something I "made up" about the Qur'an.

 

[stevecanuck]

Yeah it's clear in context when the Surah is saying to stay true to those who stayed true to you, that they too broke treaties. Nice try. Prove your interpretation. I can do the same:

"Woe to those who pray" [Qur'an, 107:4]

I guess Quran teaches not to pray! See everyone, God condemns us if we pray!

Wow, now you're just embarrassing yourself. Time to call it done.

 

[Link]

Wow, now you're just embarrassing yourself. Time to call it done.

Remember Muslims, I proven we not only don't have to pray but God condemns prayer:


"Woe to those who pray" [Qur'an, 107:4]


It's obvious, just read the words, it's right there.

 

[stevecanuck]

Remember Muslims, I proven we not only don't have to pray but God condemns prayer:


"Woe to those who pray" [Qur'an, 107:4]


It's obvious, just read the words, it's right there.

I see you're going to continue this obvious attempt to deflect from the call-to-arms that is surah 9. Okay, I'll play your silly game. You think you're about to make a big point, probably regarding context, with this quote (and the next, which you were too disingenuous in include) . We both know that this is only the first half of a sentence that, for some reason, was split between two verses. The other half reads, "who are heedless of their prayer".

So, I can guess what's coming next, but I'll let you say, "AHA, you've fallen into my trap!!!!".

You're up.

 

[Link]

They broke treaties time and time again, so Allah (swt) said no more, now that believers have upper hand, don't let them reorganize but break your treaty after four sacred months are over. And it gave them four months as a warning if they want to surrender. And when Muslims came to Mecca, the did surrender. And Mohammad (s) didn't kill them nor force them to faith, but they like the brothers of Joseph (a) after witnessing signs, said "You are indeed God's choice..." and repented.

This also foreshadowed here:

By the name of God, the All-Compassionate, the Specially Compassionate
If God's help and victory comes
And you see people entering the religion in groups
So ask forgiveness from your Lord verily he oft-turning (to his creation in compassion).

There is nothing in the Surah to show he fought those who didn't break the treaties, but rather Quran said "if they are true (to it) stay true to it" and historically, they came to Islam once Qurayshi disbelievers were defeated in Mecca.

But not through force, but they realized with Ali (a) killing everyone with supernatural strength and supernatural weapon from God as well Mohammad (s) through giant boulders and armor that protected him from God, they weren't gonna win, no matter what they try.

The fact was it was not just Angels (a) that God made believers win outnumbered, but it was also miracles through Mohammad (s) and Ali (a).

Some then believed realizing they were God's chosen, others still believed they were sorcerers with great powers, but it was best to "submit" at least by mouth and come under this empire.

 

[stevecanuck]

They broke treaties time and time again, so Allah (swt) said no more, now that believers have upper hand, don't let them reorganize but break your treaty after four sacred months are over. And it gave them four months as a warning if they want to surrender. And when Muslims came to Mecca, the did surrender. And Mohammad (s) didn't kill them nor force them to faith, but they like the brothers of Joseph (a) after witnessing signs, said "You are indeed God's choice..." and repented.

Pick a subject and stay with it.

Yes, the Meccans surrendered and were spared per 9:29. I've said so several times. What's your point? A Muslim army shows up at their door, gives them the three choices of conquest. The point you seem to be making is that Islam issues armies of conquest. Ask an 8th century Frenchman just what the hell he was doing fighting Muslims west of Paris.

This also foreshadowed here:

By the name of God, the All-Compassionate, the Specially Compassionate
If God's help and victory comes
And you see people entering the religion in groups
So ask forgiveness from your Lord verily he oft-turning (to his creation in compassion).

Yes. "And victory comes" should be a clue that you're talking about armies of conquest.

There is nothing in the Surah to show he fought those who didn't break the treaties, but rather Quran said "if they are true (to it) stay true to it" and historically, they came to Islam once Qurayshi disbelievers were defeated in Mecca.

BS. "And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".

But not through force, but they realized with Ali (a) killing everyone with supernatural strength and supernatural weapon from God as well Mohammad (s) through giant boulders and armor that protected him from God, they weren't gonna win, no matter what they try.

The fact was it was not just Angels (a) that God made believers win outnumbered, but it was also miracles through Mohammad (s) and Ali (a).

Some then believed realizing they were God's chosen, others still believed they were sorcerers with great powers, but it was best to "submit" at least by mouth and come under this empire.

And now you're off into religious la-la land. I'll leave you to your beliefs.