Utilitarian/Hedonistic Religions?

[Araceli Cianna]

A lot of religions emphasize abstinence, asceticism, ect. But I'm utilitarian and think we should enjoy our sensual experiences as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. And we should go about making life as pleasurable for both ourselves and others as possible.

Is there a religion like this? I know Satanism can be considered hedonistic but I don't really like the whole idea of Satan (I was brought up in a Christian household and have a history of psychosis).

 

[Kapalika]

Discordianism? I mean, I guess it could be.

In Hinduism one can follow a householder path that is perfectly okay with seeking worldly success and pleasure, so long as one fulfills their duties to their family and society. Asceticism isn't required of a householder, since a householder is defined by living in society, and ascetic is defined by not.

I think the problem with hedonism is that it kind of connotates an empty or senseless pursuit of pleasure at the expense of more meaningful pursuits. I personally think some mindless pleasure can be healthy but as the saying is, all things in moderation. Too much of anything even a good thing is bad.

Though I don't think you are going to find a lot of hedonistic religions outside of occult or neo-pagan circles (not saying they are the same but people in both tend to be friends with one another). It just really depends on what all you are looking for.

 

[HonestJoe]

Why do you feel the need for a religion to validate your hedonism? Worth thinking about I'd suggest.

 

[Kirran]

What @HonestJoe said.

You can follow a spiritual path without a religion, it isn't a problem. Within broad religious traditions in Hinduism and Paganism (see the Wiccan Rede) you'll find space for this kind of approach. Left-Hand etc.

 

[outlawState]

A lot of religions emphasize abstinence, asceticism, ect. But I'm utilitarian and think we should enjoy our sensual experiences as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. And we should go about making life as pleasurable for both ourselves and oth ers as possible.

Is there a religion like this? I know Satanism can be considered hedonistic but I don't really like the whole idea of Satan (I was brought up in a Christian household and have a history of psychosis).

You have to distinsguish the pleasures of the flesh from the pleasures of the mind. You have to distinguish joy in the spirit from carnal indulgence. Your question is too vague. Frequently you will find that carnal indulgence leads to loss of joy and intellectual pleasure. The more enslaved to carnal pleasure you become, the less happy you become. It's a question of priorities. You can't have it all. Jesus summed it up in the Beatitudes that showed that inner joy comes rather with not seeking carnel pleasures but thirsting after righteousness.

Perhaps Epicureanism or Deism is what you defer to, but it is distinct from hedonism in the modern sense, which is a very crude word. None the less it appears that what you seek is materialism in common with the epicureans, but which is essentially a denial or antithesis of true religion. Some form of demon worship is going to be your only option if hedonism is what your heart is really set upon, but you will have to kiss good bye to eternal life if that is the case.

 

[Kapalika]

What @HonestJoe said.

You can follow a spiritual path without a religion, it isn't a problem. Within broad religious traditions in Hinduism and Paganism (see the Wiccan Rede) you'll find space for this kind of approach. Left-Hand etc.

I would argue that a proper Left Hand tradition is going to necessarily be less hedonistic than most religions, in that, say the householder paths, like, worldly things are okay.

But if you have dedicated to the spiritual pursuit, it's going to be more ascetic. Sure, say for example Vamachara use wine ect, but the use properly is for spiritual advancement. Using it outside of that context encourages wrong doing and is anti-dharmic.

Hedonism, in the Left Hand Path in my view is a trap many fall into. The only exception to what many might consider hedonism and the Left Hand Path would be Kashmir Shaivism's Kaula but I think that in that even, there are excesses that are seen as spiritually determinant. But I think this is kind of expected sine Kaula is one of the few householder LHP traditions I am aware of.

Anyways it's fairly esoteric and there are some good books on it, but I wouldn't recommend anyone just getting into religion to do it. It's more advanced and you need to be initiated and it's group oriented. You can't just pick it up and decide to try it out.

You have to distinsguish the pleasures of the flesh from the pleasures of the mind. You have to distinguish joy in the spirit from carnal indulgence. Your question is too vague. Frequently you will find that carnal indulgence leads to loss of joy and intellectual pleasure. The more enslaved to carnal pleasure you become, the less happy you become. It's a question of priorities. You can't have it all. Jesus summed it up in the Beatitudes that showed that inner joy comes rather with not seeking carnel pleasures but thirsting after righteousness.

Perhaps Epicureanism or Deism is what you defer to, but it is distinct from hedonism in the modern sense, which is a very crude word. None the less it appears that what you seek is materialism in common with the epicureans, but which is essentially a denial or antithesis of true religion. Some form of demon worship is going to be your only option if hedonism is what your heart is really set upon, but you will have to kiss good bye to eternal life if that is the case.

I've not known demonolatry to be particularly hedonistic. I would actually say that it is less so than Satanism. But my exposure is somewhat limited. I would say that demonolatry although it has a very rich history and a true lineage going back centuries, is much smaller in number of adherents compared to Satanism.

However I don't think that suggesting that the OP would "loose eternal life" is either true or conductive here. To many, it might actually be the way to eternal life if not irrelevant to an afterlife.

I would agree though that they need to consider the difference of meaning in simply physical pleasure versus spiritual pleasure. Like, okay, it feels good to eat say pizza, but like, just eating pizza doesn't give someone the same kind of fulfillment as doing something impactful and meaningful such as creating art, having a good job where they can make a difference, or being there for others (family, friends ect).

Anyways, Ave Satanas! (Hail Satan)

 

[omega2xx]

A lot of religions emphasize abstinence, asceticism, ect. But I'm utilitarian and think we should enjoy our sensual experiences as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. And we should go about making life as pleasurable for both ourselves and others as possible.

Is there a religion like this? I know Satanism can be considered hedonistic but I don't really like the whole idea of Satan (I was brought up in a Christian household and have a history of psychosis).

Immoral pleasures are a sin. Sin is destructive and hurts the sinner. Out of love for us, that is why God tells us what they are and warns us about them.


“The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.”
― C.S. Lewis

 

[moon light]

A lot of religions emphasize abstinence, asceticism, ect. But I'm utilitarian and think we should enjoy our sensual experiences as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. And we should go about making life as pleasurable for both ourselves and others as possible.

Is there a religion like this? I know Satanism can be considered hedonistic but I don't really like the whole idea of Satan (I was brought up in a Christian household and have a history of psychosis).

If you are looking for natural sexual pleasure
Maybe Islam is what you want
Where there is no abstinence from sex

 

[Kirran]

If you are looking for natural sexual pleasure
Maybe Islam is what you want
Where there is no abstinence from sex

Sure there is - for the unmarried!

 

[Araceli Cianna]

Thanks for all the answers - very interesting and has got me thinking! When I mean Hedonism I mean the idea of enlightened self-interest which helps others simultaneously. Not a selfish sort of principle but for example, a lot of the dharmic religions focus on getting rid of the self, on emptiness and non-being, whereas I think it's good to have things you can do that you enjoy, that make you uniquely you, that you can share with others - basically a spirituality that solidifies your own better identity. Does that make sense?

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for all the answers - very interesting and has got me thinking! When I mean Hedonism I mean the idea of enlightened self-interest which helps others simultaneously. Not a selfish sort of principle but for example, a lot of the dharmic religions focus on getting rid of the self, on emptiness and non-being, whereas I think it's good to have things you can do that you enjoy, that make you uniquely you, that you can share with others - basically a spirituality that solidifies your own better identity. Does that make sense?

In dharmic religions it's more about realising what is true, which leads to a greater actualisation of your individual self at the same as a disidentification with it. It'd not like 'do we prefer to identify with the individual or not?' it's more like 'is the individual truly the self?'

 

[moon light]

Sure there is - for the unmarried!

Married also have multiple marriages and separation

 

[moon light]

Thanks for all the answers - very interesting and has got me thinking! When I mean Hedonism I mean the idea of enlightened self-interest which helps others simultaneously. Not a selfish sort of principle but for example, a lot of the dharmic religions focus on getting rid of the self, on emptiness and non-being, whereas I think it's good to have things you can do that you enjoy, that make you uniquely you, that you can share with others - basically a spirituality that solidifies your own better identity. Does that make sense?

That's true
Spirituality is not to be integrated into the soul's energy
it Is to take from energy of the soul what suits your identity

 

[Kirran]

Married also have multiple marriages and separation

But I, as a non-married person, am required to abstain from sex, no?

 

[moon light]

But I, as a non-married person, am required to abstain from sex, no?

Yes, because in this case there is harm to you or to another person

And also having sex for sex makes us closer to animals
You must be your identity
This makes it more fun and humanitarian and beyond the damag

 

[Kirran]

Yes, because in this case there is harm to you or to another person

And also having sex for sex makes us closer to animals
You must be your identity
This makes it more fun and humanitarian and beyond the damag

In what way am I or another person harmed through having sex outside of marriage?

Most sex within marriage could be described as 'sex for sex' - but really a big part of sex is emotional intimacy between people. That is surely a positive thing in most contexts. I would rather people have sex outside marriage in a way which is respectful and emotionally engaged, than have sex within marriage purely as a routine or for physical gratification.

 

[moon light]

In what way am I or another person harmed through having sex outside of marriage?

Most sex within marriage could be described as 'sex for sex' - but really a big part of sex is emotional intimacy between people. That is surely a positive thing in most contexts. I would rather people have sex outside marriage in a way which is respectful and emotionally engaged, than have sex within marriage purely as a routine or for physical gratification.

Transmission diseases for example
Sex with a passion can exist within and outside the marriage
And simply if you do not find pleasure with someone within a marriage you can separate it
But harme to be abused outside marriage
Talk is fun with you but to complete tomorrow
Thank you

 

[Liu]

Discordianism? I mean, I guess it could be.

That, or pretty much any LHP-religion. Just because you don't want to work with the mythology normally associated with Satanism, @Sheon, you don't need to rule out its philosophy with it.
LHP-religions are about choosing what works for you, so if someone feels better in another set of myths, they can use that as well.

Actually, even many who call themselves Satanists tend to utilize other myths more than Abrahamic ones.

I think the problem with hedonism is that it kind of connotates an empty or senseless pursuit of pleasure at the expense of more meaningful pursuits. I personally think some mindless pleasure can be healthy but as the saying is, all things in moderation. Too much of anything even a good thing is bad.

I agree, but it's a matter of what we understand by hedonism.
And I'd argue that serious adherents of a hedonistic philosophy don't strive for pleasure at any cost, but rather for a balance between what they'd enjoy now and what is best for their goals in the long run. Else they could simply become drug-addicts.

Thanks for all the answers - very interesting and has got me thinking! When I mean Hedonism I mean the idea of enlightened self-interest which helps others simultaneously. Not a selfish sort of principle but for example, a lot of the dharmic religions focus on getting rid of the self, on emptiness and non-being, whereas I think it's good to have things you can do that you enjoy, that make you uniquely you, that you can share with others - basically a spirituality that solidifies your own better identity. Does that make sense?

Again, LHP. There certainly are also other religions that are compatible with that, but the (western) LHP is explicitly focused on self-improvement and finding what makes you you.
It's often not really associated with helping others, but it certainly won't hinder you from doing so if you want to, on the contrary,

Immoral pleasures are a sin. Sin is destructive and hurts the sinner. Out of love for us, that is why God tells us what they are and warns us about them.

Therefore immoral = things that hurt oneself?
I could get behind that, but I think we may disagree about which things hurt in that way.

 

[Kirran]

Transmission diseases for example
Sex with a passion can exist within and outside the marriage
And simply if you do not find pleasure with someone within a marriage you can separate it
But harme to be abused outside marriage
Talk is fun with you but to complete tomorrow
Thank you

Sure, but most sex outside of marriage doesn't result in the transmission of diseases. If people are educated and know what they're doing they can prevent their spread.

Yeah, abuse outside marriage is a big problem. But harm within a marriage may well be worse, cos escape is harder.

OK!

 

[Araceli Cianna]

That, or pretty much any LHP-religion. Just because you don't want to work with the mythology normally associated with Satanism, @Sheon, you don't need to rule out its philosophy with it.
LHP-religions are about choosing what works for you, so if someone feels better in another set of myths, they can use that as well.

Actually, even many who call themselves Satanists tend to utilize other myths more than Abrahamic ones.

I agree, but it's a matter of what we understand by hedonism.
And I'd argue that serious adherents of a hedonistic philosophy don't strive for pleasure at any cost, but rather for a balance between what they'd enjoy now and what is best for their goals in the long run. Else they could simply become drug-addicts.

Again, LHP. There certainly are also other religions that are compatible with that, but the (western) LHP is explicitly focused on self-improvement and finding what makes you you.
It's often not really associated with helping others, but it certainly won't hinder you from doing so if you want to, on the contrary,

Thanks! I may give this a shot. I think LHP is what I'm looking for but I don't like the 'evil' associations with it. Why do you have to be dark if you are LHP? I want to be a good person, but I want to focus on my own self-actualisation too.