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Vaccination and Religious Beliefs

psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Vishvavajra said:
It's not about me. You're deflecting.
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Shadow Wolf said:
Is that not then a reason to get better sources? There's a reason why sources like Fox News aren't warmly welcomed here while .edu sites generally pass the source credibility test here. If it looks more like an advertisement, if it uses bad sources, if it clearly contradicts what you can see when you look around (in this case, we aren't seeing polo, except where the vaccines are not being used), contradicts what has become a highly rigorous area of study because people still doubt, and is based on lies, it isn't good. The thing with autism, for example, was started by a guy who did not do any research, he did not set up any experiment, he only put in extremely limited effort into gathering data, he didn't even compare his findings to the general population of those who have the vaccine and those who don't. There are some risks involved, and some people do have bad reactions. No one is denying that. But, I for one am glad that polo was not a part of my childhood and I don't know anyone with it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. And, as far as I know, we have more people on this forum who are at risk around those without the vaccines should that person be carrying than there are members who have had a bad reaction to the vaccines.
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The thing is whatever source I use is just not good enough, as long as its coming from the WHO or where this stuff comes from then of course they are going to back it up, and also with wonderful jargon that most here wouldn't even know what it means, the thing is I don't trust them, but you do, and really that's it for me. You will never catch anything from me, I had most of the childhood so called disease, and I am glad I did, for it has given me a great system that fights most of whatever may come into my system, I never have colds, or flues and I put it all down to not being vaccinated, and I don't really care what you or who else says about it.
 
P

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
psychoslice said:
The evidence is there if your willing to look for it, I'm not going to copy and past, I do my own reading and I have my own opinion of what I have read, and that is all I am sharing, my opinion, got it ?.
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No, it isn't. There is no *evidence* for vaccine risk being anywhere near the same order of magnitude as the diseases they protect against. If you think there is, you really are deluding yourself, believing what other conspiracty theorists post without applying any critical judgment to them at all.

But you're still running away from the question: in just the one study I linked to, of 95,000 children - how did they get the results they did? Do you think those children don't exist? That the researchers intentionally ignored hundreds or thousands of children with vaccine-related damage, just like all the other researchers, ever, that have done thses sorts of studies have made up their results?
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
psychoslice said:
The thing is whatever source I use is just not good enough, as long as its coming from the WHO or where this stuff comes from then of course they are going to back it up, and also with wonderful jargon that most here wouldn't even know what it means, the thing is I don't trust them, but you do, and really that's it for me. You will never catch anything from me, I had most of the childhood so called disease, and I am glad I did, for it has given me a great system that fights most of whatever may come into my system, I never have colds, or flues and I put it all down to not being vaccinated, and I don't really care what you or who else says about it.
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I too am rarely sick, and I was vaccinated.
And do you realize you are saying you do not trust credible sources? Credible sources that are peer reviewed, subject to retesting, are sources that have to maintain a standard when utilizing outside sources. You do not trust these?
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
psychoslice said:
The thing is whatever source I use is just not good enough, as long as its coming from the WHO or where this stuff comes from then of course they are going to back it up, and also with wonderful jargon that most here wouldn't even know what it means, the thing is I don't trust them, but you do, and really that's it for me. You will never catch anything from me, I had most of the childhood so called disease, and I am glad I did, for it has given me a great system that fights most of whatever may come into my system, I never have colds, or flues and I put it all down to not being vaccinated, and I don't really care what you or who else says about it.
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And this is all a part of the vast amounts of scientific research you've done, right? :rolleyes:
 
Vishvavajra

Vishvavajra

Active Member
psychoslice said:
The thing is whatever source I use is just not good enough, as long as its coming from the WHO or where this stuff comes from then of course they are going to back it up, and also with wonderful jargon that most here wouldn't even know what it means, the thing is I don't trust them, but you do, and really that's it for me.
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You don't trust credible sources, and you're frustrated that people won't trust your non-credible sources? Maybe you just need to admit that you're wrong. What would it take to disprove your views, since apparently they're immune to evidence?

You will never catch anything from me, I had most of the childhood so called disease, and I am glad I did, for it has given me a great system that fights most of whatever may come into my system, I never have colds, or flues and I put it all down to not being vaccinated, and I don't really care what you or who else says about it.
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This is neither here nor there. Your anecdotal experiences don't mean anything in the long run. It's like pointing to someone who's 90 years old and a smoker and saying clearly smoking is good for you. Or saying that a cold winter day disproves the entire theory of climate change, as the folks on FOX News are fond of doing.

The entire point of scientific data is that subjective human experiences aren't reliable in the grand scheme. And really, it's not about whether people will get sick from you. It's about the fact that if enough people follow your advice and example, people will get sick, and some people will die. You alone won't be the problem, but you're contributing to the problem, not just by being unvaccinated, but more importantly by spreading falsehoods that gullible people might see and believe. You as an individual can catch a free ride on the backs of the rest of us, but only so long as 99% of the population isn't like you.

As far as the notion that being unvaccinated makes your immune system stronger, that idea relies on a deep lack of understanding of how the system works. Literally nobody with any level of scientific knowledge of the immune system believes that. It's basically magical thinking.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
philbo said:
No, it isn't. There is no *evidence* for vaccine risk being anywhere near the same order of magnitude as the diseases they protect against. If you think there is, you really are deluding yourself, believing what other conspiracty theorists post without applying any critical judgment to them at all.

But you're still running away from the question: in just the one study I linked to, of 95,000 children - how did they get the results they did? Do you think those children don't exist? That the researchers intentionally ignored hundreds or thousands of children with vaccine-related damage, just like all the other researchers, ever, that have done thses sorts of studies have made up their results?
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That's ok if you want to believe those studies, but I just cannot buy it, because all your studies have come from the very source of where this crap comes from.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
I too am rarely sick, and I was vaccinated.
And do you realize you are saying you do not trust credible sources? Credible sources that are peer reviewed, subject to retesting, are sources that have to maintain a standard when utilizing outside sources. You do not trust these?
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No I don't not totally.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Vishvavajra said:
You don't trust credible sources, and you're frustrated that people won't trust your non-credible sources? Maybe you just need to admit that you're wrong. What would it take to disprove your views, since apparently they're immune to evidence?


This is neither here nor there. Your anecdotal experiences don't mean anything in the long run. It's like pointing to someone who's 90 years old and a smoker and saying clearly smoking is good for you. Or saying that a cold winter day disproves the entire theory of climate change, as the folks on FOX News are fond of doing.

The entire point of scientific data is that subjective human experiences aren't reliable in the grand scheme. And really, it's not about whether people will get sick from you. It's about the fact that if enough people follow your advice and example, people will get sick, and some people will die. You alone won't be the problem, but you're contributing to the problem, not just by being unvaccinated, but more importantly by spreading falsehoods that gullible people might see and believe. You as an individual can catch a free ride on the backs of the rest of us, but only so long as 99% of the population isn't like you.

As far as the notion that being unvaccinated makes your immune system stronger, that idea relies on a deep lack of understanding of how the system works. Literally nobody with any level of scientific knowledge of the immune system believes that. It's basically magical thinking.
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Well what more can I say, you know it all already.
 
P

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
psychoslice said:
That's ok if you want to believe those studies, but I just cannot buy it, because all your studies have come from the very source of where this crap comes from.
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Talk about none being so blind as those who will not look.. "All my studies"? So far I've only posted one, and you have dodged trying to answer the one question I've been asking about it: are you saying you think it's completely made up, and those children don't even exist?

.."the very source of where this crap comes from"?? OK, *where* did that study come from? I'll bet you didn't even look. Author affiliations:
The Lewin Group, Falls Church, Virginia
Optum, Eden Prairie, Minnesota
A. J. Drexel Autism Institute, Drexel University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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..are those "the very source"? No, of course not. You're being ridiculous.

I could come up with similar sized studies from rhe UK, Japan and Germany (those that I know of), mainly by university departments - are these "the very source where this crap comes from"?

How many places around the world need to come up with the same results, independently, for you to even entertain the possibility that you might be wrong?
 
SomeRandom

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
psychoslice said:
You will never catch anything from me, I had most of the childhood so called disease, and I am glad I did, for it has given me a great system that fights most of whatever may come into my system, I never have colds, or flues and I put it all down to not being vaccinated, and I don't really care what you or who else says about it.
Click to expand...

Uhh you do realize that there's viruses that never leave your body, right? And that they can flare back up even if you do not get another separate infection?
There's even a name for them! It's called "Virus Latency."

Herpes simplex virus is one and why if you ever get a single cold sore and then get rid of it, you can still get cold sores later on, despite not becoming infected a single other time.

Chickenpox (a so called childhood disease as you put it) is another that lies dormant in your body, even if you get it and "defeat" it. It can flare up again and cause what we call Shingles. And Shingles is definitely NOT just a childhood infection, it's flipping painful.
Chickenpox during particular times of pregnancy is considered a medical emergency, just so you know.

Also just to throw a wrench into the wonderment that is immune systems on their own. Ever hear of the Spanish Flu? It was particularly nasty and even if you had the perfect immune system, you were pretty ****ed over by it. Because the healthier the immune system the better it attacked the body.

And many "childhood" diseases can still KILL people with compromised immune systems or cancer patients. So I doubt they'd view them in such a jovial light as you just did.

Latency seems to be why HIV is such a ***** to cure (though we are making headway slowly but surely, so yay!)

What I'm saying here is virus latency has some pretty bad affects and really bad potential as a general health risk. They are not to be shrugged off as "well I had them when I was young so I won't get them anymore" because that's not how Biology or those particular viruses work.
 
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